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  1. #3346

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    Fascinating as always. Thanks for posting all of that. Your comments and the numbers explain so much. I'll just say: It is striking how bad northeastern Spain has become. You know that I dearly love Estonia, and I see several chunks of Estonia have no cases reported. If I could have a Star Trek transporter about now....

    GH

  2. #3347

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    After a night of sleep and thought (and Cuba Libres).
    While agree with Suliso that we should not jump into conclusions, there are some data already out there that can be analyzed. For example, there are enough cases with heart and lung conditions that remain as sequels to COVID. This should make it clear: IF you catch C19, you MAY develop such conditions. If others have, you are not immune.
    By now we have had 6 months of good data on a variety of countries that have tried different approaches. The Swede experiment is of particular interest as, as Suliso's tables show, they seem to be moving towards a better situation. Colombia has reliable info too: a total country shutdown, lockdowns in almost the entire country, and yet, it is getting worse.
    My point: yes, one year of monitoring the disease would be great. But we already have solid data on some aspects: it affects the elderly more than anybody. PPE DOES help (hospital personnel infections are down). Not everything about the disease it known. But some things are.
    And, again. Not going against anybody's opinion here because we, at base, have the same. Just pointing out that 6 months (or more) into this thing our level of understanding is better.
    Face it. It's the apocalypse.

  3. #3348

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    I'd never claim we know very little, just not the whole picture yet.

    As for the difference between Colombia and Sweden I'd speculate it has a lot to do with poverty and cramped living situation in the former. In the latter family units are much smaller and far higher percentage of the population can afford to work from home.

    By the way any theories why Uruguay is such a positive exception in the continent?
    Roger forever

  4. #3349

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    I have asked several people over many years why Uruguay is always such a positive exception on the continent...in so many different situations (pick almost any category and they seem to do best).

    One answer I found interesting was: Uruguay never had anything the USA wanted, so the USA never meddled in their business or politics, thereby allowing them to work things out. (See Chile 1973 for a grand exception, and also the Dirty War in Argentina).

    I do think the smallish population has also had something to do with that. They only have about 3.5 million.

    Now, I'd love to hear what Drop says to that question, and also Ponchi. GH

  5. #3350
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    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    The possible, COVID-specific research questions for the next 10-100 years are pretty infinite, no? For example, let's focus solely on reproduction for a minute...

    Are infants who were exposed to COVID in utero born with some level of COVID resistance (we may know some of this already)? If so, is that consistent across all population groups (e.g., whites, Blacks, Latinos, etc.). Or are infants exposed to COVID in utero more likely to experience long-term negative health outcomes?

    Will we observe any differences in health outcomes between infants who were exposed to COVID in utero and those born to COVID-recovered women in subsequent pregnancies?

    Will COVID have inter-generational consequences--either positive or negative? For example, will infants or children who contracted COVID go on to give birth to/father children with increased resistance to disease or, on the other end of the spectrum, increase risk for disease? What about young adults?

    Will COVID affect fertility? Will we observe differences in fertility outcomes between men and women? Will these observations be consistent across different population groups?

    I'm just scratching the surface here. But it could be 50-100 years, maybe even more, before we have answers to some questions, especially anything related to intergenerationality (did I just create a word?) or long-term health impacts on the COVID-recovered children and young adults of today. The decades ahead will be an incredibly fascinating period of scientific discovery--yet, of course, we all wish it would have never happened.

    And remember--not ALL of the scientific findings regarding the long-term impact of COVID will be negative. There will be some positive outcomes as well--and some of them will be positive impacts we never would have thought of.
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  6. #3351

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    All I can say about Uruguay is that they are fairly organized, in a country with a small population. And while I was in Montevideo, I really did not see slums or villas or anything like that.
    But their success is indeed a good question.
    Face it. It's the apocalypse.

  7. #3352

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    Looking at the US list I saw Idaho is now right behind South Carolina. I only looked back a week but I wonder what is driving the infection rate there? I know one large city in Idaho off the top of my head and that's Boise. My impression is that the state is mostly rural and sparsely populated. Did some people like the ones the NYT profiled last week head out there?

    Also with Spain's north east aren't there a lot of people who come from other countries to visit their beaches? I'm thinking mainly of England but don't they come from other places as well?
    “No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.” – Lily Tomlin.




  8. #3353

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    azcentral @azcentral
    Rep. Raúl Grijalva tests positive for COVID-19, is symptom-free

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...tter_azcentral
    “No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.” – Lily Tomlin.




  9. #3354

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    A School Reopens, and the Coronavirus Creeps In
    As more schools abandon plans for in-person classes, one that opened in Indiana this week had to quarantine students within hours.


    A student at Greenfield Central Junior High School in Indiana tested positive for the coronavirus on Thursday, the first day of school.Credit...AJ Mast for The New York Times

    By Eliza Shapiro, Giulia McDonnell Nieto del Rio and Shawn Hubler
    Aug. 1, 2020
    Updated 11:34 a.m. ET

    One of the first school districts in the country to reopen its doors during the coronavirus pandemic did not even make it a day before being forced to grapple with the issue facing every system actively trying to get students into classrooms: What happens when someone comes to school infected?

    Just hours into the first day of classes on Thursday, a call from the county health department notified Greenfield Central Junior High School in Indiana that a student who had walked the halls and sat in various classrooms had tested positive for the coronavirus.

    Administrators began an emergency protocol, isolating the student and ordering everyone who had come into close contact with the person, including other students, to quarantine for 14 days. It is unclear whether the student infected anyone else.

    “We knew it was a when, not if,” said Harold E. Olin, superintendent of the Greenfield-Central Community School Corporation, but were “very shocked it was on Day 1.”

    To avoid the same scenario, hundreds of districts across the country that were once planning to reopen their classrooms, many on a part-time basis, have reversed course in recent weeks as infections have spiked in many states.

    Those that do still reopen are having to prepare for the near-certain likelihood of quarantines and abrupt shutdowns when students and staff members test positive.


    Of the nation’s 25 largest school districts, all but six have announced they will start remotely, although some in places like Florida and Texas are hoping to open classrooms after a few weeks if infection rates go down, over strong objections from teachers’ unions.

    More than 80 percent of California residents live in counties where test positivity rates and hospitalizations are too high for school buildings to open under state rules issued last month. And schools in Alexandria, Va., said on Friday that they would teach remotely, tipping the entire Washington-Baltimore metro area, with more than one million children, into virtual learning for the fall.

    In March, when schools across America abruptly shuttered, it seemed unimaginable that educators and students would not return to school come fall, as they have in many other parts of the world. Now, with the virus continuing to rage, tens of millions of students will start the year remotely, and it has become increasingly clear that only a small percentage of children are likely to see the inside of a school building before the year ends.

    “There’s no good answer,” Mark Henry, superintendent of the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District near Houston, told trustees at a recent special meeting in which they voted to postpone the district’s hybrid reopening until September. “If there was a good answer, if there were an easy answer,” he said, “we would lay it out for you and everybody would be happy.”

    Anywhere that schools do reopen — outside of a portion of the Northeast where the virus is largely under control — is likely to see positive test results quickly, as in Indiana.

    A New York Times analysis found that in many districts in the Sun Belt, at least five people infected with the coronavirus would be expected to arrive at a school of about 500 students and staff members during the first week if it reopened today.

    To deal with that likelihood, many schools and some states have enacted contact tracing and quarantine protocols, with differing thresholds at which they would close classrooms or buildings.

    Because of the low infection rate locally, New York City, the largest district in the country, plans to reopen schools on a hybrid model on Sept. 10, with students attending in-person classes one to three days a week. Yet even there, the system might have to quickly close if the citywide infection rate ticks up even modestly.

    On Friday, Mayor Bill de Blasio laid out a plan for responding to positive cases that would mean many of the city’s 1,800 public schools would most likely have individual classrooms or even entire buildings closed at certain points.


    One or two confirmed cases in a single classroom would require those classes to close for 14 days, with all students and staff members ordered to quarantine. The rest of the school would continue to operate, but if two or more people in different classrooms in the same school tested positive, the entire building would close for an investigation, and might not reopen for two weeks depending on the results.

    In California, where schools in two-thirds of the state have been barred from reopening in person for now, state guidelines call for a school to close for at least 14 days if more than 5 percent of its students, faculty and staff test positive over a two-week period.

    Chicago, the nation’s third-largest school district, has proposed a hybrid system for reopening that would put students into 15-member pods that can be quarantined if one member tests positive. School buildings should close if the city averages more than 400 new cases a week or 200 cases a day, the plan states, with other worrying factors like low hospital capacity or a sudden spike in cases taken into account.

    In Indiana, where the middle school student tested positive on Thursday in Greenfield, an Indianapolis suburb of 23,000 people, the virus began to spike in mid-June, and the caseload has remained relatively high. This week, Indianapolis opted to start the school year online.

    The Greenfield-Central Community School Corporation, with eight schools and 4,400 students, gave families the option of in-person or remote learning. At Greenfield Central Junior High School, which the student with the positive test attends, about 15 percent of the 700 enrolled students opted for remote learning, said Mr. Olin, the superintendent.

    “It was overwhelming that our families wanted us to return,” he said, adding that families needed to be responsible and not send students to school if they were displaying symptoms or awaiting test results. Students are also required to wear masks except when they are eating or for physical education outside, he said — and as far as he knew, the student who tested positive was doing so.

    Anyone who was within six feet of the student for more than 15 minutes on Thursday was instructed to isolate themselves for two weeks, Mr. Olin said. He would not give a specific number of people who were affected at the school, but he said no teachers or staff members were identified as close contacts, and therefore none have been told to quarantine.

    “It really doesn’t change my opinion about whether we should start or not,” Mr. Olin said. “If we get down the road and realize that we need to make some adjustments, we’re not opposed to that.”

    He said that the district did not have a specific threshold for when it would close a school, but that it would likely do so if absences reached 20 percent. The state has not provided specific guidance to schools on when they should shut their doors, he said.

    Some teachers in the district said the positive case on the first day confirmed their fears about returning.


    “I most definitely felt like we were not ready,” said Russell Wiley, a history teacher at nearby Greenfield-Central High School. “Really, our whole state’s not ready. We don’t have the virus under control. It’s just kind of like pretending like it’s not there.”

    One father whose daughter goes to the middle school with the positive case said he felt conflicted about his three children attending classes in person. Few people in the community are wearing masks, said the father, who asked not to be named because he worried that his family would face backlash.

    “I have all these concerns,” the father said. But he has to commute at least an hour to work every day, so remote learning was not a good option for his family.

    “It’s just a mess,” he said. “I don’t know what the answers are.”



    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/u...mid=tw-nytimes
    “No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.” – Lily Tomlin.




  10. #3355

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ti-Amie View Post
    Also with Spain's north east aren't there a lot of people who come from other countries to visit their beaches? I'm thinking mainly of England but don't they come from other places as well?
    Yes, there are many foreign tourists usually there albeit the biggest beach tourism center in Spain is probably Costa del Sol which is located much further south in Andalusia (between Malaga and Algeciras).
    Roger forever

  11. #3356

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    Coronavirus threat rises across U.S.: ‘We just have to assume the monster is everywhere’

    By
    Joel Achenbach,
    Rachel Weiner and
    Chelsea Janes
    August 1, 2020 at 11:00 a.m. EDT

    The coronavirus is spreading at dangerous levels across much of the United States, and public health experts are demanding a dramatic reset in the national response, one that recognizes that the crisis is intensifying and that current piecemeal strategies aren’t working.

    This is a new phase of the pandemic, one no longer built around local or regional clusters and hot spots. It comes at an unnerving moment in which the economy suffered its worst collapse since the Great Depression, schools are rapidly canceling plans for in-person instruction and Congress has failed to pass a new emergency relief package. President Trump continues to promote fringe science, the daily death toll keeps climbing and the human cost of the virus in America has just passed 150,000 lives.

    “Unlike many countries in the world, the United States is not currently on course to get control of this epidemic. It’s time to reset,” declared a report released this week by Johns Hopkins University.

    Another report from the Association of American Medical Colleges offered a similarly blunt message: “If the nation does not change its course — and soon — deaths in the United States could be well into the multiple hundreds of thousands.”

    The country is exhausted, but the virus is not. It has shown a consistent pattern: It spreads opportunistically wherever people let down their guard and return to more familiar patterns of mobility and socializing. When communities tighten up, by closing bars or requiring masks in public, transmission drops.

    That has happened in some Sun Belt states, including Arizona, Florida and Texas, which are still dealing with a surge of hospitalizations and deaths but are finally turning around the rate of new infections.

    There are signs, however, that the virus is spreading freely in much of the country. Experts are focused on upticks in the percentage of positive coronavirus tests in the upper South and Midwest. It is a sign that the virus could soon surge anew in the heartland. Infectious-disease experts also see warning signs in East Coast cities hammered in the spring.

    “There are fewer and fewer places where anybody can assume the virus is not there,” Gov. Mike DeWine (R) of Ohio said Wednesday. “It’s in our most rural counties. It’s in our smallest communities. And we just have to assume the monster is everywhere. It’s everywhere.”

    Dire data

    An internal Trump administration briefing document prepared by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and obtained Friday by The Washington Post counted 453,659 new infections in the past week.

    Alaska is in trouble. And Hawaii, Missouri, Montana and Oklahoma. Those are the five states, as of Friday, with the highest percentage increase in the seven-day average of new cases, according to a Post analysis of nationwide health data.

    “The dominoes are falling now,” said David Rubin, director of the PolicyLab at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, which has produced a model showing where the virus is likely to spread over the next four weeks.

    His team sees ominous trends in big cities, including Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Louisville, Philadelphia, St. Louis and Washington, with Boston and New York not far behind. And Rubin warns that the expected influx of students into college towns at the end of this month will be another epidemiological shock.

    “I suspect we’re going to see big outbreaks in college towns,” he said.


    Young people are less likely to have a severe outcome from the coronavirus, but they are adept at propelling the virus through the broader population, including among people at elevated risk. Numbers of coronavirus-related hospitalizations in the United States went from 36,158 on July 1 to 52,767 on July 31, according to The Post’s data. FEMA reports a sharp increase in the number of patients on ventilators.

    The crisis has highlighted the deep disparities in health outcomes among racial and ethnic groups, and data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention this week showed that hospitalization rates due to the coronavirus are roughly five times higher among Black, Hispanic and Native Americans than Whites.

    Thirty-seven states and Puerto Rico will probably see rising daily death tolls during the next two weeks compared with the previous two weeks, according to the latest ensemble forecast from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst that combines more than 30 coronavirus models.

    There are glimmers of progress. The FEMA report showed 237 U.S. counties with at least two weeks of steady declines in numbers of new coronavirus cases.

    But there are more than 3,100 counties in America.


    “This is not a natural disaster that happens to one or two or three communities and then you rebuild,” said Beth Cameron, vice president for global biological policy and programs at the Nuclear Threat Initiative and a former White House National Security Council staffer focused on pandemics. “This is a spreading disaster that moves from one place to another, and until it’s suppressed and until we ultimately have a safe and effective and distributed vaccine, every community is at risk.”

    A national strategy, whether advanced by the federal government or by the states working in tandem, will more effectively control viral spread than the current patchwork of state and local policies, according to a study from researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology published Thursday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    The coordination is necessary because one state’s policies affect other states. Sometimes, that influence is at a distance, because states that are geographically far apart can have cultural and social ties, as is the case with the “peer states” of New York and Florida, the report found.

    “The cost of our uncoordinated national response to covid-19, it’s dramatic,” said MIT economist Sinan Aral, senior author of the paper.

    Some experts argue for a full six-to-eight-week national shutdown, something even more sweeping than what was instituted in the spring. There appears to be no political support for such a move.

    Neil Bradley, executive vice president of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said fresh federal intervention is necessary in this second wave of closures. Enhanced federal unemployment benefits expired at the end of July, with no agreement on a new stimulus package in sight.

    “Congress, on a bipartisan basis, was trying to create a bridge to help individuals and businesses navigate the period of a shutdown,” Bradley said. “Absent an extension of that bridge, in light of a second shutdown, that bridge becomes a pier. And then that’s a real problem.”

    With the economy in shambles, hospitals filling up and the public frustrated, anxious and angry, the challenge for national leadership is finding a plausible sea-to-sea strategy that can win widespread support and simultaneously limit sickness and death from the virus.

    Many Americans may simply feel discouraged and overtaxed, unable to maintain precautions such as social distancing and mask-wearing. Others remain resistant, for cultural or ideological reasons, to public health guidance and buy into conspiracy theories and pseudoscience.

    DeWine is struggling to get Ohio citizens to take seriously the need to wear masks. A sheriff in rural western Ohio told the governor Wednesday that people didn’t think the virus was a big problem. DeWine informed the sheriff that the numbers in his county were higher per capita than in Toledo.

    “The way I’ve explained to people, if we want to have Friday night football in the fall, if we want our kids back in school, what we do in the next two weeks will determine if that happens,” DeWine said.


    The crucial metric

    The coronavirus has always been several steps ahead of the U.S. government, the scientific community, the news media and the general public. By the time a community notices a surge in patients to hospital emergency rooms, the virus has seeded itself widely.

    The virus officially known as SARS-CoV-2 can be transmitted by people who are infectious but not symptomatic. The incubation period is typically about six days, according to the CDC. When symptoms flare, they can be ambiguous. A person may not seek a test right away. Then, the test results may not come back for days, a week, even longer.

    That delay makes contact tracing nearly futile. It also means government data on virus transmission is invariably out of date to some degree — it’s a snapshot of what was happening a week or two weeks before. And different jurisdictions use different metrics to track the virus, further fogging the picture.

    The top doctors on the White House coronavirus task force, Deborah Birx and Anthony S. Fauci, are newly focused on the early warning signs of a virus outbreak. This week, they warned that the kind of runaway outbreaks seen in the Sun Belt could potentially happen elsewhere. Among the states of greatest concern: Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio and Tennessee.

    Fauci and Birx have pointed to a critical metric: the percentage of positive test results. When that figure starts to tick upward, it is a sign of increasing community spread of the virus.

    “That is kind of the predictor that if you don’t do something — namely, do something different — if you’re opening up at a certain pace, slow down, maybe even backtrack a little,” Fauci said in an interview Wednesday.

    Without a vaccine, the primary tools for combating the spread of the virus remain the common-sense “non-pharmaceutical interventions,” including mask-wearing, hand-washing, staying out of bars and other confined spaces, maintaining social distancing of at least six feet and avoiding crowds, Fauci said.

    “Seemingly simple maneuvers have been very effective in preventing or even turning around the kind of surges we’ve seen,” he said.

    Thirty-three U.S. states have positivity rates above 5 percent. The World Health Organization has cited that percentage as a crucial benchmark for governments deciding whether to reopen their economy. Above 5 percent, stay closed. Below, open with caution.

    Of states with positivity rates below 5 percent, nine have seen those rates rise during the last two weeks.


    “You may not fully realize that when you think things are okay, you actually are seeing a subtle, insidious increase that is usually reflected in the percent of your tests that are positive,” Fauci said.

    P1
    “No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.” – Lily Tomlin.




  12. #3357

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    Coronavirus threat rises across U.S.: ‘We just have to assume the monster is everywhere’
    P2

    The shutdown blues

    Some governors immediately took the White House warnings to heart. On Monday, Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear (D) said at a news conference that he had met with Birx the previous day and was told he was getting the same warning Texas and Florida received “weeks before the worst of the worst happened.”

    To prevent that outcome in his state, Beshear said, he was closing bars for two weeks and cutting seating in restaurants.

    But as Beshear pleaded that “we all need to be singing from the same sheet of music,” discord and confusion prevailed.

    Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds (R) said Thursday she wasn’t convinced a mask mandate is effective: “No one knows particularly the best strategy.”

    Earlier in the week, Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee (R) demurred on masks and bar closures even as he stood next to Birx and spoke to reporters.

    “That’s not a plan for us now,” he said. He added emphatically, “We are not going to close the economy back down.”

    The virus is spreading throughout his state, and not just in the big cities. Vacationers took the virus home from the honky-tonks of Nashville and blues clubs of Memphis to where they live in more rural areas, said John Graves, a professor at Vanderbilt University studying the pandemic.

    “The geographical footprint of the virus has reached all corners of the state at this point,” Graves said.

    In Missouri, Gov. Michael L. Parson (R) was dismissive of New York’s imposition of a quarantine on residents from his state as a sign of a worsening pandemic. “I’m not going to put much stock in what New York says — they’re a disaster,” he said at a news conference Monday.

    Missouri has no mask mandate, leaving it to local officials to act — often in the face of hostility and threats. In the town of Branson, angry opponents testified Tuesday that there was no reason for a mask order when deaths in the county have been few and far between.

    “It hasn’t hit us here yet, that’s what I’m scared of,” Branson Alderman Bill Skains said before voting with a majority in favor of the mandate. “It is coming, and it’s coming like a freight train.”

    Democratic mayors in Missouri’s two biggest cities, Kansas City and St. Louis, said that with so many people needing jobs, they are reluctant to follow Birx’s recommendation to close bars.

    “The whole-blanket approach to shut everybody down feels a little harsh for the people who are doing it right,” said Jacob Long, spokesman for St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson. “We’re trying to take care of some bad actors first.”

    Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey also got a warning from Birx. On Wednesday, he said all bar drinking must move outside.

    “We don’t want to be heading in the direction of everybody else,” said Kristen Ehresmann, director of the infectious-disease epidemiology division at the Minnesota Department of Health. She acknowledged that some options “are really pretty draconian.”

    The problem is that less-painful measures have proven insufficient.

    “The disease transmission we’re seeing is more than what would have been expected if people were following the guidance as it is laid out. It’s a reflection of the fact that they’re not,” she said.

    ‘A tremendous disappointment’

    Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers (D) tried to implement broad statewide measures early in the pandemic, only to have his “Safer at Home” order struck down by the state’s Supreme Court.

    With cases in his state rising anew, he tried again Thursday, declaring a public health emergency and issuing a statewide mask mandate.

    “While our local health departments have been doing a heck of a job responding to this pandemic in our communities, the fact of the matter is, this virus doesn’t care about any town, city or county boundary, and we need a statewide approach to get Wisconsin back on track,” Evers said.

    Ryan Westergaard, Wisconsin’s chief medical officer, said he is dismayed by the failures of the national pandemic response.

    “I really thought we had a chance to keep this suppressed,” Westergaard said. “The model is a good one: testing, tracing, isolation, supportive quarantine. Those things work. We saw this coming. We knew we had to build robust, flexible systems to do this in all of our communities. It feels like a tremendous disappointment that we weren’t able to build a system in time that could handle this.”

    There is one benefit to the way the virus has spread so broadly, he noted: “We no longer have to keep track of people traveling to a hot spot if hot spots are everywhere.”

    Jacqueline Dupree and Lena H. Sun contributed to this report.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ge%2Fstory-ans
    “No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.” – Lily Tomlin.




  13. #3358

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    The Lincoln Project
    @ProjectLincoln
    Oh the places we can’t go.

    “No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.” – Lily Tomlin.




  14. #3359

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    That is not really true. Sure, US citizens cannot travel to Colombia, Argentina, Peru or most of South America because NOBODY can. We are all in international travel shutdown. No specific targeting of Americans is in place.
    But, I guess, politics. Who said the truth matters?
    Face it. It's the apocalypse.

  15. #3360

    Re: covid-19 Virus Updates and Discussion

    By the way if you're wondering where the absolute worst covid-19 hotspot in US is then the answer is Madison county, TX (halfway between Dallas bad Houston). 411(!) cases per day per 100 k inhabitants. That's ca 4x worse than in Miami. Of course it's a small rural county, but still.
    Roger forever

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