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Thread: Horse Racing Random Random

  1. #31
    Armchair Jock Ribbons's Avatar
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    If they get to Keeneland I will definitely cheer for and put some money on them!

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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    Neither of those responses fall into the "please talk me out of it" category.

    I still need to have a conversation with the Manager, who is a woman, which is pretty rare. The partnership I am looking at has the second highest 2019 purse per start rate of the partnerships I am considering. (I know I cannot afford the partnership with the highest 2019 purse per start rate, but the one I am considering is only slightly behind it and achieved their rate with 12 starts compared to 35 starts for the leader.)

    I need to confirm it with her, but the package of three yearling horses I am considering (I am 99% sure) include:

    • A Brethren colt with a pedigree that suggests both dirt and distance competency with a second dam that bring competency on turf
    • A First Dude colt who is linebred to A.P. Indy at 3x4 and Seattle Slew and Relaunch at 4x5; distance should be no problem; he'd probably excel on dirt or synthetic, but turf isn't out of the question
    • A Constitution filly who, from the looks of her, has tremendous racing and broodmare potential. She is bred for distance as well. Would probably be limited to dirt, but not necessarily.


    Seriously, I want someone to talk me out of this...

    I know what they paid for these yearlings at the auctions. (All of this is available online.) None of them fetched prices that drip confidence. That said, Mitole (Breeder's Cup winner just last week) brought a similar price when he was first put up at auction. Which, of course, means nothing.
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  3. #33
    Grand Slam Champion skatingfan's Avatar
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    This sport really should be out of business.


  4. #34
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    Quote Originally Posted by dryrunguy View Post

    Seriously, I want someone to talk me out of this...
    You're gonna need to locate some of your sensible friends for that. If you can afford to lose the money, then I say go for it. Sounds like even if these horses don't turn into Kentucky Derby horses, they'd still be competing so even then, you're unlikely to be losing your entire investment. And if it works out? We'll hear about the unlikely ownership group of the Belmont Stakes winner. There's a story like that every few years in horse racing, why can't you be a part of it?

  5. #35
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    skatingfan, I saw your post this morning and have been thinking about it all day. I have seen that video before and many others like it, so I have zero interest in watching it again. And for anyone reading, if your orientation on the matter of horse racing is that it is inherently unethical, nothing I am about to write will change your mind. And I respect that point of view.

    Your perspective is 100% valid. I cannot argue with you. And I won't. But I'd like to mention a few trends I am seeing in the thoroughbred industry that I find very encouraging:

    1) Activism regarding abuses within the world of thoroughbred horse racing has yielded much success. More need to be done, but the activism is working. One example would be restrictions that have been placed on how often thoroughbreds can race. (I am not exactly sure what the restriction is, but a restriction now exists that did not exist before. Another example would be the increasing amount of shaming I have seen, including shaming from within the thoroughbred community, regarding things like whipping a horse when you're running down the stretch and have a 10-length lead. A Breeder's Cup jockey did this two weekends ago, and he got royally roasted for it. (That said, I hope I remember to make a point later in this post about fundamental changes in whips. I wasn't aware of it until earlier today.)

    2) There is a proliferation of "after care" stables developing all the time. I did not know this. I only knew of a few. But the number of these stables who are taking on horses after they have been retired from racing is growing. In fact, in my research about racing partnerships over the past few weeks, I have learned that many racing partnerships have special funds set aside for supporting these after care stables, buying back horses a partnership previously owned if they have since fallen into the hands of unethical trainers or stables, ensuring these horses are placed in a safe stable where they can live out the rest of their years, etc. Among racing partnerships, this is now becoming the norm rather than the exception--at least among racing partnerships like what I am considering. That's encouraging.

    3) Back to the whips... My understanding is that whips are much lighter than they used to be. They are so light that they don't even leave a mark and (according to most) cause no pain. I will predict that no jockeys will be using whips in thoroughbred races 20 years from now. (Hopefully sooner.) Based on everything I am reading and hearing, this is actually realistic--at least for the upper echelon of thoroughbred racing.

    4) I am of the firm (but perhaps errant) belief that the majority of these horses WANT to race. I see it in the stretch runs when a horse has a lead, loses it, and battles back to win without a whip or with a minimal whip. I want to let them run under the safest possible conditions. Of course, a horse can just run in a field and never in a race, but a lot of those horses will get injured, too--perhaps even catastrophically.

    ::

    All that said, I slipped by TVG yesterday and saw thoroughbreds in a claiming race at Finger Lakes racing during a snowstorm. I was mortified. I also know that the kinds of things captured in the video you posted still happen today. That has to be stopped to the maximum extent possible. Much more needs to be done to protect horses (especially geldings or sterile colts) after their racing careers are over. And from what I am reading, the best way to stop it is to be an activist from within the community of horse racing rather than outside of it. And these racing partnerships, I think, are an ideal venue for doing that.

    Of course, hopefully external folks will continue their activism. We need it.

    And sadly, pretty much nothing I have written here applies to horse racing outside of thoroughbred racing or horse racing around the world. So that work needs to be done, too.
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  6. #36
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    Sorry. Just one other thing.

    There is A LOT of compassion within the thoroughbred community. One of the best examples is the Permanently Disabled Jockeys Fund (https://pdjf.org).

    Another example, specific to a horse, would be one of many I have read. It is the story of Gato Del Sol, long-shot winner of the 1982 Kentucky Derby. He raced for a long time, had a respectable career, but proved to have no clout as a sire. He was eventually sold to owners in Germany where he continued to underperform as a sire. His original co-owners in Kentucky went through great lengths to buy him back so he would not suffer the same fate as Exceller, another great horse that was killed in a Swedish slaughterhouse after he was no longer deemed useful.

    Gato Del Sol went on to die of natural health conditions at the ripe old age of 28.

    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  7. #37
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzNU View Post
    You're gonna need to locate some of your sensible friends for that. If you can afford to lose the money, then I say go for it. Sounds like even if these horses don't turn into Kentucky Derby horses, they'd still be competing so even then, you're unlikely to be losing your entire investment. And if it works out? We'll hear about the unlikely ownership group of the Belmont Stakes winner. There's a story like that every few years in horse racing, why can't you be a part of it?
    Mitole was first purchased for $20,000 as a yearling and then resold for $140K as a 2-year-old in training. He won the Breeder's Cup Sprint a few weeks ago and now has over $3 million in earnings. And he's just a 4-year-old with every indication he will be lucrative sire. His yearling price is in the same ballpark as the yearlings I am considering.

    Of course, that's the exception rather than the norm.
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  8. #38
    Grand Slam Champion skatingfan's Avatar
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    Quote Originally Posted by dryrunguy View Post
    skatingfan, I saw your post this morning and have been thinking about it all day. I have seen that video before and many others like it, so I have zero interest in watching it again. And for anyone reading, if your orientation on the matter of horse racing is that it is inherently unethical, nothing I am about to write will change your mind. And I respect that point of view.

    Your perspective is 100% valid. I cannot argue with you. And I won't. But I'd like to mention a few trends I am seeing in the thoroughbred industry that I find very encouraging:
    I understand.

  9. #39
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    Quote Originally Posted by dryrunguy View Post
    Mitole was first purchased for $20,000 as a yearling and then resold for $140K as a 2-year-old in training. He won the Breeder's Cup Sprint a few weeks ago and now has over $3 million in earnings. And he's just a 4-year-old with every indication he will be lucrative sire. His yearling price is in the same ballpark as the yearlings I am considering.
    Great! I expect to see you getting interviewed by Laffit Pincay (the 3rd?) in the next couple of years.

  10. #40
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzNU View Post
    Great! I expect to see you getting interviewed by Laffit Pincay (the 3rd?) in the next couple of years.
    I'm pretty sure that would require owning more than 1% of a horse.

    BTW, I saw a horse named Roddick win a race today... I couldn't tell you where. I was in the throes of getting dinner ready. And yes, he was named after Andy.
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  11. #41
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    Re: Horse Racing Random Random

    Quote Originally Posted by dryrunguy View Post
    I'm pretty sure that would require owning more than 1% of a horse.

    BTW, I saw a horse named Roddick win a race today... I couldn't tell you where. I was in the throes of getting dinner ready. And yes, he was named after Andy.
    And no, you'd qualify. They've had those $5k investors, maybe college or high school friends? That was several years ago I think. They like interviewing the everyman with the unlikely tale.

    They've really taken to naming horses after athletes of other sports lately, huh? Been a decent number lately.

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