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Thread: Brexit

  1. #31

    Re: Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Drop-shot View Post
    Oh, I thought she still had one around called Boris.
    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  2. #32

    Re: Brexit

    Channel 4 News
    @Channel4News

    "This daughter of immigrants needs no lectures from the north London, metropolitan, liberal elite."

    Home Secretary Priti Patel says she will "end the free movement of people once and for all".

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1179061961071501313


    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  3. #33

    Re: Brexit

    Pwn All The Things
    @pwnallthethings

    Folks need to get better at distinguishing requests designed to get agreement from requests designed to elicit negative responses because the next step is predicated on the rejection
    Let me give you an example. The UK's current Brexit strategy, as exemplified by the first three paragraphs of the letter



    You always lead with what's important. And what's important in this letter is who's to blame when you don't agree. Which tells you everything you need to know about the letter.

    Anyway. Sometimes the point of a letter is not to make an offer you'll accept, but to tell a different audience that you just rejected their reasonable offer.
    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  4. #34

    Re: Brexit

    ‘Sack me if you dare,’ Boris Johnson will tell the Queen
    The Speaker, John Bercow, has been proposed as a national unity leader

    Tim Shipman and Caroline Wheeler
    October 6 2019, 12:01am,
    The Sunday Times

    Boris Johnson will dare the Queen to sack him rather than resign as prime minister in an attempt to drive through Brexit on October 31, cabinet ministers have revealed.

    In an unprecedented escalation of the constitutional crisis, senior aides said Johnson would not stand aside if his proposals were rejected by Brussels and MPs tried to unseat him to avert a no-deal Brexit.

    They said Johnson was prepared to “squat” in Downing Street even if MPs declare no confidence in his government and agree a caretaker prime minister to replace him.

    Sources say MPs and peers have even discussed the idea of Commons Speaker John Bercow taking on the job, although some involved in the talks do not think he could command majority support.

    Senior Tories also claimed Johnson would sit tight if he were found in contempt of court for ignoring the Benn Act, a law passed by remainer MPs to prevent no deal, unless he faces jail.

    One senior figure said: “Unless the police turn up at the doors of 10 Downing Street with a warrant for the prime minister’s arrest, he won’t be leaving.”

    Together, Johnson’s plans mean that the clashes in parliament and the Supreme Court may be only the opening salvos in what promises to be the biggest constitutional storm in centuries.

    The details emerged as Johnson’s draft deal with Brussels appeared to be on life support. EU bosses announced on Friday night that Johnson’s proposal to remove the Northern Ireland backstop was “not the basis of a deal”.

    Sources close to Michel Barnier, the EU negotiator, told The Sunday Times this weekend: “We are not going into the tunnel,” meaning the process of line-by-line negotiations that would signal a possible breakthrough.

    Johnson will have telephone calls with his fellow EU leaders, including a planned conversation with Leo Varadkar, the taoiseach, on Wednesday.

    Steve Barclay, the Brexit secretary, will travel to Holland today to drum up support for Johnson’s plans. The prime minister’s chief negotiator, David Frost, will return to Brussels and his senior aide Sir Edward Lister is expected to travel later to Dublin.

    However, insiders said they expected the EU to signal that the talks were going nowhere as early as tomorrow, triggering a vicious blame game.

    Opposition MPs and Tory rebels plan to act if Johnson refuses to agree a delay to the Brexit deadline of October 31 — installing a veteran such as Dame Margaret Beckett as caretaker in his place.

    It has been assumed by members of the “rebel alliance” that if a caretaker prime minister commanded majority support, Johnson would be duty-bound to resign. But he could refuse to resign or recommend the name of any successor to the Queen.

    A senior cabinet minister said: “Our opponents have flouted convention and there is nothing in the Fixed-term Parliaments Act that says you have to resign. The Queen is not going to fire the prime minister. She would dissolve parliament and let the people decide.”

    The last time a monarch sacked a prime minister was in 1834, when William IV dismissed Lord Melbourne.

    In a bid to pile the pressure on Johnson, Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, will tomorrow try to force a parliamentary vote to demand that the government publish the entire legal text of his Brexit plan — something he has resisted, despite demands from Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president, and Varadkar.

    Starmer said: “The legal text is important because we suspect it will confirm that the government’s proposals unavoidably mean the introduction of infrastructure in Northern Ireland, and that this will contradict the assurances Johnson gave in the House on Thursday.

    “We also think the text will show how the government plans to replace the current commitments to protect workers’ rights.”

    Behind the scenes, ministers are warning Juncker and Barnier that they are “out of touch” with British public opinion and that they are risking “disaster” unless they do a deal with Johnson. A senior No 10 source warned that refusing a deal would simply lead to Johnson winning an election on a no-deal manifesto — or leave triumphant if remainers secured a new referendum.

    “If they listen to the people who lost the last referendum, there will be a disaster,” the source said. “There will be an election. We are going to win it. If Boris has a majority, we can leave with no deal. They need to face political reality.”

    Despite the downbeat tone in Brussels, sources in Berlin suggested Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, is still ready to thrash out a deal at an EU summit on October 17.

    Insiders say Johnson will have to give ground on customs controls between Northern Ireland and the republic, and the veto powers over EU regulations that his blueprint grants to the DUP.

    A senior government source predicted no breakthrough: “I’ve watched SW1 claim for 10 years that Merkel will change the game. She won’t. The most they’ll do is nudge the French if Ireland wants to do a deal. They won’t pressure Ireland.”

    A Labour source said: “The mood is that the talks will collapse tomorrow.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...ueen-fsbpsnjdc
    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  5. #35
    4.0 NTRP and falling ponchi101's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit

    There has got to be some sociological phenomenon that has taken place in the last generation that has led to the rise of these sort of men that claim to be democrats but are nowhere near.
    Something in the last 25 years must have happened in the world that have made these maniacs bent in destroying democracy appear everywhere.
    Missing winter...

  6. #36
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    Re: Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    There has got to be some sociological phenomenon that has taken place in the last generation that has led to the rise of these sort of men that claim to be democrats but are nowhere near.
    Something in the last 25 years must have happened in the world that have made these maniacs bent in destroying democracy appear everywhere.
    If anyone finds a decent writing, please share, I'd love to know as well.
    Meet again we do, old foe...

  7. #37

    Re: Brexit

    Mike Galsworthy
    @mikegalsworthy
    ·
    2h
    Remember when they told you Brexit was about ‘slashing red tape’?

    It wasn’t true.

    The EU ‘bureaucrats’ & ‘technocrats’ were tasked with removing red tape.

    That’s why the reality of leaving the EU is a surge in red tape - as this Govt info ad shows:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1184094432011964417
    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  8. #38
    Grand Slam Champion suliso's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit

    Boris has kept his word and a new Brexit deal has been signed with EU and the hated backstop has been dropped. Now the question is whether he has the votes to pass it. Superficially seems like no (DPU is voting no), but you never know. It all depends on political considerations of the opposition MP's. They aren't really risking much, it's either this deal or an extension.
    Roger forever

  9. #39
    Tour Champion the Moz's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit

    You have to think that Boris has brought the deal into supportable territory for many of the non-Corbyn Labour & rebel alliance Tory MPs that have thrice defeated a WA, or what's the point? He needs 320 votes, but with the DUP looking like they will vote against the deal, it's going to be close.
    25 GRAND SLAM TITLES: 5 SINGLES 13 DOUBLES 7 MIXED

  10. #40

    Re: Brexit

    Weary unionists fear Johnson’s Brexit deal will strike at heart of their identity
    Rory Carroll

    Sun 20 Oct 2019 07.50 BST

    In Lisburn, once the home of the Ulster Defence Regiment, there was confusion about the DUP’s role in a dramatic week

    Lisburn’s Britishness is etched in stone and bronze, its town centre dotted with plaques, monuments and statues to those who built the empire and served the United Kingdom.

    General John Nicholson towers over Market Square, cutlass in one hand, pistol in the other, the plinth declaring he fell mortally wounded “in the hour of victory” during the 1857 Indian mutiny.

    An even bigger sculpture immortalises a male and female soldier from the Ulster Defence Regiment, which was formed in this County Antrim town and battled the IRA during the Troubles. Built on a heroic scale, they embody sacrifice and loyalty.

    On Saturday many residents who followed the Brexit debate at Westminster heard a distinct chip, chip, chip – the sound of their identity, of Northern Ireland’s position in the UK, being chiselled away.

    “Unionism is in a precarious position, it’s been found wanting. I think we’re on the road to a united Ireland,” said James Maxwell, 39, a business owner. “Boris Johnson was mealy mouthed. He’s duplicitous.”

    Kris Fenning, 45, a painter, feared MPs were taking a hammer to peace and stability in Northern Ireland. “If there’s a push for a united Ireland the loyalists will be back on the streets, the nationalists will be back on the streets and we’ll be back to the bad old days, another 10 or 20 years of hell.”

    The House of Commons actually put the brakes on the Brexit deal that would impose a customs border down the Irish Sea, a dramatic reversal for the prime minister inflicted with relish by his erstwhile allies: the Democratic Unionist party.

    Having been duped and betrayed by Downing Street over the Brexit deal the DUP clawed back some authority, and revenge, by backing Oliver Letwin’s cross-party amendment. It averted a decisive vote on the deal and forced the prime minister to comply with the terms of the Benn act, which obliges him to write to the EU to request a Brexit delay.


    Johnson said he was not daunted and would press ahead with tabling Brexit legislation this week, heralding a likely legal challenge and fresh parliamentary drama.

    In Lisburn, a market town south of Belfast where union flags fly year-round, there was little sign of relief let alone celebration. Some reckoned Johnson’s deal will prevail, if not next week then after a general election. Others surrendered to weariness and confusion, no longer sure what constituted good or bad news.

    “We want to remain British, that’s all,” said Iris, 76, a retired factory worker who withheld her surname. “We’re tired of listening to Brexit. I still want to leave the EU but not if it means weakening our union with Britain.”

    Lisburn is derived from an Irish name, Lios na gCearrbhach, that means fort of the gamblers. To some residents that felt like a description of the repeated dice rolling in Westminster.

    A retired care worker who gave her name only as Mrs Bell said most MPs had overlooked Northern Ireland and would continue to do so. “They’ve wiped their feet with us. It’s just a mess, a complete mess.”

    Lisburn is a DUP stronghold represented in Westminster by Jeffrey Donaldson – a potential successor to the party leader Arlene Foster.

    Its 10 MPs defied Downing Street arm-twisting to back the Letwin amendment, aligning the pro-Brexit, unionist party with Remainers and a Labour party led by Jeremy Corbyn, who favours a united Ireland.

    Should Brexit end up cancelled, history books will parse the DUP’s actions on Saturday for a minute-by-minute reconstruction of the decisions and personalities – step forward Sammy Wilson – that shaped the UK’s fate. The stakes are existential.


    Voices across the political spectrum have formed a chorus spelling out danger to the union. John Major and Tony Blair issued a joint statement appealing for a fresh referendum. The Labour MP Kate Hoey said the deal could “do in less than a month what Sinn Fein/IRA failed to achieve in a century of physical force”.

    Jonathan Powell, the chief British negotiator in Northern Ireland from 1997 to 2007, wrote in the Irish Times: “It might be tempting to just say the DUP had it coming, given their misplaced trust in the two-timing Johnson, but that would be a mistake for the long-term peace of the island.”

    Sinn Fein senses a historic opportunity should polarisation over Brexit and demographic changes tilt a potential referendum on Irish unity. Irish officials in Dublin sense it too – with dread. “We’re not ready,” said one. “We don’t even know if we can afford it or if we want it.”

    After three years of Brexit monomania many in Lisburn on Saturday preferred to watch rugby and football – anything, in fact – rather than proceedings in the House of Commons.

    They were fed up with Brexit and also with the DUP. Some accused it of hubris and naivety, paving the way to a perilous Brexit deal. Others simply blamed the party for prolonging the Brexit uncertainty.

    Ryan Grant, 24, shrugged and sighed when asked about his preferred outcome. “I just want everyone to be happy.”

    Greg Mackle, 64, a warehouse operative, never wants to hear the word Brexit again. “I just want it resolved. Get it finished and get on with business, get things back to normal.”

    Frank Smith, 61, who works in manufacturing, said businesses craved clarity. “You see orders dragging down.”

    Tommy, a 68-year-old retired factory worker, confessed he was stumped. He wanted to leave the EU – “they’re letting in asshole countries” – but did not want to loosen Northern Ireland’s place in the UK. “For the size of this wee country it’s created some serious problems.”

    Wayne Morrison, 39, a civil servant, said fears about the union were overblown and that Northern Ireland should not stand in the way of Brexit. “A customs border down the Irish Sea is not ideal but people in Northern Ireland need to understand we’re a burden on the UK taxpayer. We can’t expect the whole UK to shape the deal to suit us.”

    Loyalists with paramilitary links do appear to expect that. They are reportedly planning to meet in Belfast next week to discuss contingency plans.

    In an interview at Belfast city hall, John Kyle, a councillor with the UVF-aligned Progressive Unionist party, called for calm and reason.

    “There is increasing nervousness within unionism regarding the consequences of a deal which is why the details are so important. In Northern Ireland perception is everything and that’s why language is so important. We should never take peace for granted. Talk of betrayal and sabre rattling is unhelpful if not dangerous.”



    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...box=1571587398
    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  11. #41

    Re: Brexit

    Duncan Morrow
    @duncan_morrow

    UK govt cannot concede a veto to the DUP without losing any deal. In fact the enabling factor of Johnson’s deal with EU was the deal on NI. So the last available way to get rid of customs checks is to make last minute efforts to stop Brexit . And this has been obvious for ages.
    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  12. #42

    Re: Brexit

    Yawn.....not much happening in the world today, eh? GH

  13. #43

    Re: Brexit

    Tom Harper
    @TomJHarper
    Breaking - Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s most senior adviser, is facing questions over his past activities in Russia after a whistleblower came forward to raise “serious concerns” about the 3 years Cummings spent there after graduating from Oxford. See the Sunday Times

    A whistleblower has contacted Labour frontbench with concerns over the relationships that Cummings May have developed in “politics, intelligence and security” when he worked in Russia between 1994 and 1997.

    Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has written to Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, & the heads of MI5 & MI6 asking what level of security vetting was handed to Cummings when he joined Boris Johnson in Downing St. See tomorrow’s Sunday Times exclusive with
    @cazjwheeler

    The Sunday Times understands that Whitehall is restricting some government business from Cummings, despite awarding him developed vetting (DV) status, which should grant him access to top secret intelligence. See tomorrow’s Sunday Times
    @cazjwheeler

    Cummings declined to comment.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...ssia-vl6d0w62z

    Leaked letter reveals Cummings whistleblower also raised concerns re “Conservative Friends of Russia”, organisation shut down after alleged links to Russian intelligence exposed. Cummings’ Vote Leave co-founder Matthew Elliott was involved with group

    Dominic Grieve, chair of cross-party intelligence and security committee (ISC), asks whether it is a nervous Cummings who is currently blocking the publication of ISC report into alleged Russian interference in 2016 Brexit referendum

    Looks like Channel 4 is broadcasting a
    @C4Dispatches
    tomorrow night on similarities between Dominic Cummings and Seamus Milne, the two special advisers separately in charge of Labour and Tory political strategy


    Nov 4
    Lib Dems join Labour to raise questions re Dominic Cummings’ security vetting.
    @ChukaUmunna
    writes to cabinet secretary
    @marksedwill
    re claims that Boris Johnson’s top adviser is unusually prevented from seeing some aspects of government biz - despite receiving DV clearance



    Senior minister Michael Gove explains why govt won’t yet publish intelligence report on Russian interference in UK democratic processes. The arguments have been publicly questioned by former MI5 boss, former national security adviser & ex-cabinet secretary

    Brexitshambles
    @brexit_sham
    · Nov 5
    @MishalHusain sounding as frustrated, insulted and exasperated as the nation, as @michaelgove evades, obfuscates, denies and lies about the ISC Special Report on Russia.

    #ReleaseTheRussianReport

    h/t @KeejayOV2

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1191640539101310976
    Tom Harper
    @TomJHarper
    Breaking - Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab refuses to confirm or deny questions over Dominic Cummings' security clearance following Sunday Times story last week

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-...ssia-vl6d0w62z

    In the Commons, shadow foreign secretary asked Raab: "Simple yes or no question: does Mr Cummings have unredacted access to top secret intelligence, and unrestricted access to top secret meetings related to Russia, Ukraine and Syria.” (1/2)

    Regarding questions over Dominic Cummings' vetting, Raab, the foreign secretary, said the government "does not comment on security clearance" but rejected any "insinuation" that "No10 is somehow in the grip of a Kremlin mole" (2/2)

    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  14. #44
    Tour Champion the Moz's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit

    Boris will win a majority at the GE in December and then be able to pass his own WA and then take all the credit for getting the UK out of the EU. Yuck.
    25 GRAND SLAM TITLES: 5 SINGLES 13 DOUBLES 7 MIXED

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