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Thread: Davis Cup 2019

  1. #121

    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    For comparison, Montreal hold the ATP record for attendance for a one week event at more than 220,000.

  2. #122
    Been playing a long while Deuce*'s Avatar
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    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    About the new format of the Davis Cup: Belgium’s Steve Darcis expressed a common sentiment: “It is an honor to play for my country, but please don’t call it the Davis Cup.

    Boris Becker conceded that after 119 years, change was needed, but, “Tennis is, from now on, only business and politics.”
    Critics howled that the format was incomprehensible, and one headline read, “Foolish Reform Has Killed the Davis Cup.”


    http://www.insidetennis.com/2019/11/...-feel-so-good/
    Last edited by Deuce*; 11-25-2019 at 01:06 AM.
    * Yes, it's me (last seen on TW boards in 2009).

  3. #123

    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Ti-Amie View Post
    Eleanor Crooks
    @EleanorcrooksPA
    Gerard Pique is here for a finals day press conference, says there have been more than 130,000 people through the gates: “These are incredible numbers. You can see the impact in different countries.”

    How exactly can you see the impact in different countries? I hope there was a translation error here because that doesn't make any sense unless it's not meant to because he's just trying to spin a bad situation.

    Also, this entire thing is ridiculously elite and no one running it seems to realize it. You hope people around the world see this Davis Cup and come in the future? Are they honestly clueless enough to think random tennis fans who did like this new format can afford to travel around the world to attend? And oh yeah, hope the team you traveled to see doesn't lose quick! There's a reason the that 900 British fans near Madrid suddenly able to attend the GB semifinal once they got free tickets from the LTA. Tennis can be so very out of touch.

  4. #124

    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    Sorry to bump this thread, but I was wondering today, what is the simple answer to why Davis Cup was dying*? Is it because top players were too taxed to commit? Didn't need the money? Didn't care about the honor, which is so strong in places like Australia?

    *For the sake of this discussion, let's agree it was dying.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  5. #125

    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    I never got the impression that Davis Cup was dying from fans. It seemed to be a meme that came out of nowhere. The enthusiasm was great wherever it was played and no, the stars weren't playing unless it was crucial but that has more to do with the tour schedule than anything else.

    I was just thinking last night how so many changes seem to have been made for the sake of change and not for the good of the sport.
    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”

    ― Frank Zappa





  6. #126

    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Ti-Amie View Post
    I never got the impression that Davis Cup was dying from fans. It seemed to be a meme that came out of nowhere. The enthusiasm was great wherever it was played and no, the stars weren't playing unless it was crucial but that has more to do with the tour schedule than anything else.

    I was just thinking last night how so many changes seem to have been made for the sake of change and not for the good of the sport.
    That's interesting, that there isn't a consensus on whether Davis Cup was dying or healthy. Should be a fairly easy truth to discern. I always thought it was well-accepted, not a media narrative. I was reminded of it yesterday while listening to a podcast with Mark Woodford (recorded this past summer). He and the host talked about the new Davis Cup, and they said unequivocally the old one was dying (I assume it's gauged by World Group ties, though not sure if they put more weight on attendance or player participation ). Woodford gave an example of the US-Belgium tie in Nashville last year, and said there was hardly anyone in the stands. I took him at his word.

    Well, anyway, was star participation the main culprit?
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  7. #127

    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    Holding a DC tie in Nashville was equivalent to holding The Ashes in Nantucket. Who the hell came up with that idea, to begin with?
    There was not enough money. When the top stars are complaining about the length of the season but then go and play in the (WTF is this?) Mubadala classic for a gazillion rupees, you can tell that it was not the scheduling.
    And if it was dying, it simply got lucky this year that Spain reached the final. The current one had plenty of empty seats for the ties not involving the locals.
    Missing winter...

  8. #128

    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    Holding a DC tie in Nashville was equivalent to holding The Ashes in Nantucket. Who the hell came up with that idea, to begin with?
    There was not enough money. When the top stars are complaining about the length of the season but then go and play in the (WTF is this?) Mubadala classic for a gazillion rupees, you can tell that it was not the scheduling.
    And if it was dying, it simply got lucky this year that Spain reached the final. The current one had plenty of empty seats for the ties not involving the locals.
    They tend to hold Davis Cup and Fed Cup in second- or third-tier American cities, because they can't get a venue in biggest cities on short notice. As a bonus, it helps introduce the sport to different markets (I think that's looking on the bright side, though, not a grow-the-sport strategy).

    Federations pay players for playing Davis Cup, but maybe it pales in comparison to tournament appearance fees.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  9. #129

    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    "...but maybe it pales in comparison to tournament appearance fees." I suspect it "pales" by a factor of 10. (That is an opinion...not based on any real knowledge, but I suspect I'm not far off.)

    To me, it is always "fun" to hear top players justify their participation in events such as the Mubadala Classic mentioned by Megan. A recent parallel in the golf world has occurred. The PGA tour stop in Phoenix on Super Bowl weekend has long been very popular, even with fairly high level players. This year, there is a tournament being held in Saudi Arabia, and they have gotten together a stellar cast of the top players in the world for the event. The top players got a lot of heat for two reasons: skipping a scheduled PGA event to go; and, the fact that they were going to Saudi Arabia, when there were people clamoring for them not to go as a reaction to the Khashoggi murder.

    Anyway, those top golfers had some sort of a news conference to justify their choice to go to this tournament in Saudi Arabia. They used justifications such as "it will grow the sport in that part of the world." I got mildly nauseated listening to them, since any idiot knew the reason they were going was the size of the appearance fee. Athletes at that level in individual sports can show great magnanimity at times. But at many times, they simply look greedy.

    GH

  10. #130
    Been playing a long while Deuce*'s Avatar
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    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    I think that Davis Cup was dying for the same basic reason that doubles has effectively died - that being that those 'in charge' of tennis killed both.
    With doubles, it began about 10 - 15 years ago when the powers that be decided to change everything about doubles. No-ad, no 3rd set, etc.
    I remember at that time having a rather passionate and intense hour long discussion with Gayle Bradshaw, who was the head of ATP officiating for many years. I told him that they are effectively ruining doubles. He countered by saying that they are helping doubles, and that, by making these changes, it will bring more top players (he named Federer and Nadal as examples) into playing doubles regularly. I told him that that may happen briefly, but it definitely would not last. Guess who was right?

    By making these changes to doubles, they were giving fans the message that doubles is incredibly UNIMPORTANT; that it's not worthy of much court time. That is obviously not an effective way to help or encourage doubles. But it was a very effective way to kill it. And I strongly suspect that the powers that be knew that they'd be killing it. All of the doubles players I spoke with at the time hated the new rules for doubles - they said it would effectively kill doubles. I told Bradshaw this.

    For years before those major changes to doubles, the tennis administration did their best to downplay doubles, virtually never promoting it, and barely giving it a mention. That then gave them 'justification' to change it. I believe it was all planned.
    The same approach has been taken with Davis Cup. For years, it has been treated by the tennis administration as being insignificant and unimportant. Instead of promoting Davis Cup, they created flashy exhibitions like the Laver Cup, the 'Next Gen' thing, now the 'ATP Cup', etc. That then gives them, they feel, the 'justification' to significantly alter the Davis Cup format, which they've now done.

    I feel that their main goal is to kill Davis Cup, as their money people have very likely figured out that they can make more money with the flashy exhibitions, etc. than with Davis Cup. It's a very similar scenario to what they did with doubles, where I feel their intention was also to kill it (mission accomplished).

    Sadly, sport as we knew it no longer exists anywhere near the professional level. It is now nothing but business.
    To see real sport, managed properly and honestly, and played for the right reasons, we have to watch kids play.
    Last edited by Deuce*; 12-29-2019 at 10:42 PM.
    * Yes, it's me (last seen on TW boards in 2009).

  11. #131
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    Re: Davis Cup 2019

    I would second that David Cup wasn't "dying" - interest in Davis Cup outside the core tennis fans in the US decreased over the last decades in the same way interest for any non-slam tennis event decreased among US fans in recent decades. Whether it's because of the rise of other entertainment options/better marketing of other sports, bad linkage between ATP/WTA and ITF, or some planned wind-down as noted above, lack of ATP points, etc. who knows, but I'd agree the "Davis Cup is dying because the format is bad" was more of a consistent narrative than consistent reality globally.


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