Agree Agree:  8
Likes Likes:  17
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1

    Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Do you really believe Nadal would have won 6 AO/W/USO titles if he wasn't early dominant on clay & RG? I say that because he won 4 FO before winning Wimbledon. He literally destroyed Federer in the 2008 FO final 6-1 6-3 6-0 1 month before the Wimbledon final. His confidence had to be enormous at that point in time because he saw clay as totally 'locked down' and he could free-wheel on grass & hard from that point on and opportunistically bag non-FO slams. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve massive kudos for winning those titles, he won them fair & square. However, clay dominance was always the base. What I mean is that he was brought up by Uncle Toni to be dominant on clay since he was 12 years old. The bulk of the clay season happens in April to early June. Ideal part of the season where a top player is not likely to be tired/injured.

    Just hypothetical, if clay & grass were inverted on the schedule and there were 3 grass masters + Wimbledon(April to early June) followed by 0 clay masters + RG(June to early July), don't you think Federer would have done the same thing? Meaning he would have been impregnable at Wimbledon, won 11-12 already and used that uber-confidence to bag 2-3 RG titles.

    Of course one can argue that the schedule has always been this way and Federer's coaches should have emphasized clay more by solidifying his backhand at a younger age. Maybe stayed with 2-handed backhand.

    At the end of the day, their slam totals are immutable, but these are the things many hard-core fans have been ruminating on since 10+ years ago.

    My controversial stance is that the clay/grass setup enabled the slam race to be this close. In an alternate reality that I mentioned(clay/grass swap), Federer might be sitting at 25 slams to maybe 9 for Rafa.
    2017 Australian Open Final - Roger Federer def Rafael Nadal 6-4 3-6 6-1 3-6 6-3
    "I leveled up."

  2. #2

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Serious question: why and how did you chose the Title for this thread? I don't think any Nadal fan has ever said anything negative about his entire game being based on his great clay performance, and then he has become very good everywhere else.
    So I don't know why you question their honesty. Or were you stating that they are honest indeed?
    Last edited by ponchi101; 04-15-2019 at 07:48 AM.
    Starry starry night

  3. #3

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    I think they should be honest with themselves about the situation.
    2017 Australian Open Final - Roger Federer def Rafael Nadal 6-4 3-6 6-1 3-6 6-3
    "I leveled up."

  4. #4
    Slightly Less of a Loser
    Awards Showcase

    ptmcmahon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    15,105

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Wait...what if grass season being first made Federer over-confident? Then when he didn't do well on clay...it totally dispirited him. He would then begin to dread the grass season too and then winds up only winning that one Wimbledon. This opens the door for Nadal to possibly grab a few more. Having more back to back Wimby-French Opens, his confidence then leads him to many more US Open wins.

    So Nadal fans, please be honest with yourself and admit Nadal is unlucky! He could be pushing closer to 30 slams now!

    Actually, scratch that, if we're doing hypothetical history re-writing, I'm giving those Wimbledons to Roddick
    Last edited by ptmcmahon; 04-15-2019 at 12:17 PM.
    Thanks for the medal Johanna!

  5. #5

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by FedFanForever View Post
    I think they should be honest with themselves about the situation.
    Honestly, how many lucky slams did Fed win because Nadal was out injured?

    Honestly, how does someone with the screen name FedFanForever have the gall to ask such a question?
    Towel Avatar, do your thing!

  6. #6

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    I see where you're coming from and it's an interesting thought exercise. But any arrangement could potentially help someone and hurt someone else. I don't think players mold themselves for the ebbs and flows of the surface seasons. There are way too many variables to be able to shape a career around the calendar. I think Nadal grew up playing on clay because that's the predominant surface in Europe and particularly in Spain.

    If you're saying a dominant clay season every year meant Nadal could play Wimbledon without much pressure and that has padded his Slam total, then he would have won Wimbledon more than three times.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  7. #7

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganFernandez View Post
    If you're saying a dominant clay season every year meant Nadal could play Wimbledon without much pressure and that has padded his Slam total, then he would have won Wimbledon more than three times.
    Nadal has two Wimbys. Just sayin'.
    Towel Avatar, do your thing!

  8. #8

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    One of Rafa's Wimbledon wins is a match considered by many to be the best match of the modern era. Tennis Channel made a documentary about it.
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  9. #9

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Just to say: The greatness of the top three is such that if you take any two of the three out, the remaining one would be up to 25 slams already. Roger maybe 30 (simply because he is older and started earlier).
    The only "bad" thing for these three guys is that they were born at the same time. For us, of course, it has been the Golden Era of all Golden Eras.
    Last edited by ponchi101; 04-16-2019 at 12:39 PM.
    Starry starry night

  10. #10
    Slightly Less of a Loser
    Awards Showcase

    ptmcmahon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    15,105

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ti-Amie View Post
    One of Rafa's Wimbledon wins is a match considered by many to be the best match of the modern era. Tennis Channel made a documentary about it.
    But only because he had the confidence of the clay season before it! Otherwise Roger beating Rafa at the RG final that year would have been the best match of the modern era! #JustBeingHonest
    Thanks for the medal Johanna!

  11. #11

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    I definitely don't agree with the premise that Rafa "opportunistically" won his 6 non-RG slams. At 2008 Wimbledon, he beat Murray and Federer et al. 2009 AO - Federer and Gonzalez (who cleaned his clock at the same tournament a couple years before) et al., 2010 Wimbledon - Murray, Soderling, and Berdych, 2010 USO - Djokovic, 2013 USO - Super-Djokovic, 2017 USO - Del Potro but yeah, I could be convinced to give you that one lol. Thomas Johansson "opportunistically" won a Slam. That last US Open is the only one you could make an argument that the draw fell apart and he really only had a slightly challenging match or two.

    Likely the main reason the Slam counts are so close despite Roger arguably having a more versatile game, is that Roger never made the adjustments necessary to beat Rafa on clay with any regularity (13-2 Rafa overall and 5-0 at RG by my count). Novak did, so it is possible. Roger never got there and once he got his RG in 2009 (dare I say "opportunistically" ), it probably wasn't a big motivation. He only just recently got there on hard courts.
    Avatar: Munchin's Favorite Matches - #10 - Andre Agassi vs. Pete Sampras - 2000 Australian Open SF

    "If I didn't play tennis, I would probably have to go see a psychiatrist" - Arthur Ashe

  12. #12

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    You can also always mention how the three of them have lost Slams they were not expected to. Roger at the 2009 USO, when Delpo played the match of his life. Nadal at the Aussie, when his back gave up. Novak at RG, the day Stan played the match of his life.
    The argument that they could be at 21, 18 and 16 is possible too. So if they were lucky at one or two, they were also unlucky at one or two. And at the USO, remember Novak's slapped forehand return against Roger. Lucky for one, unlucky for the other.
    I thought the great ones admit that it is part of the sport.
    Last edited by ponchi101; 04-18-2019 at 01:46 PM.
    Starry starry night

  13. #13

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    You can also always mention how the three of them have lost Slams they were not expected to. Roger at the 2019 USO, when Delpo played the match of his life. Nadal at the Aussie, when his back gave up. Novak at RG, the day Stan played the match of his life.
    The argument that they could be at 21, 18 and 16 is possible too. So if they were lucky at one or two, they were also unlucky at one or two. And at the USO, remember Novak's slapped forehand return against Roger. Lucky for one, unlucky for the other.
    I thought the great ones admit that it is part of the sport.
    And if Roger's backhand return against Haas at the 2009 French didn't go in... And if Roddick hadn't botched the backhand overhead in the 2nd-set tiebreak of the 2009 Wimbledon... You're right that this is a fool's errand. But I appreciate the OP's rumination. Interesting to think through it.

    Off-topic, but... Novak's slap-shot return at the USO was incredibly audacious, and I've always thought that's what got under Roger's skin - audacity winning over sensibility.
    Last edited by MeganFernandez; 04-18-2019 at 07:57 AM.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  14. #14

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    "My favorite's biggest rival loves clay. Well what if clay barely existed!? He wouldn't be so smug then, WOULD HE?"

    "Sir, this is Wendy's drive thru."

  15. #15
    Slightly Less of a Loser
    Awards Showcase

    ptmcmahon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    15,105

    Re: Honesty from Nadal fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    You can also always mention how the three of them have lost Slams they were not expected to. Roger at the 2019 USO, when Delpo played the match of his life.
    Are you psychic again?
    Thanks for the medal Johanna!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •