Agree Agree:  135
Likes Likes:  90
Page 16 of 16 FirstFirst ... 61213141516
Results 226 to 237 of 237
  1. #226

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Data shows women are not penalized more than men, except in the area of coaching.

    I wait with bated breath for Serena to apologize for spreading a falsehood on global television.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/s...e=sectionfront
    Towel Avatar, do your thing!

  2. #227

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Alex Ohanian argues that NY Times stats weren't the right ones to use.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/tenn...86J?li=BBnbfcL

    TA
    My Beloved Mother

  3. #228

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TennisAnyone74 View Post
    Alex Ohanian argues that NY Times stats weren't the right ones to use.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/tenn...86J?li=BBnbfcL

    TA
    Alex doesn't need anyone's help in funding that study. He should indeed go ahead and do it on his own.
    Towel Avatar, do your thing!

  4. #229
    Senior Staff
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    shtexas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    24,656

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    This thread will never end.

    And for what it is worth, Alex makes a good point.

  5. #230

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Ohanian's arguments:
    Women are punished more "per incident". How does he know that? Where is HIS data? Who gets to decide what was a punishable event, if the chair umpire did not call it?
    Quote: "Statistics can be illuminating when you know what you're looking for.". Nope. Statistics are illuminating when they are double blind. Otherwise, you get confirmation bias.
    Do the reverse math. Women (according to the numbers) were fined 535 times. Let's say that they were fined only 50% of the times. That means that for the men to be fined more times PER EVENT than the women, they would need to do over 3000 FINE-WORTHY events. But, that would make it the same rate as for the women. So for men to be fined LESS than the women, BY A NON-TRIVIAL FACTOR, you would need somewhere around 3500 events or higher. Do we see that on TV?

    Take racket abuse. The one event that is consistently fined by all umpires since it is very clear cut and easy to spot. Men 646, women 99, for a 6.46 ratio (it is great to do stats with numbers like 99). Do the reverse math. If women are fined more than men PER EVENT, how many NON FINED racket smashes did the men have to do in order to be fined LESS than women? We have our Racket Smashing thread to look at. Again, assume that women get fined 50% for racket abuse. That means they smashed 198 rackets. But, if men are fined LESS than women (let's say, 45%, which is not significant) we would need 1,435 rackets broken on the ATP. It would be the Marcos Baghdatis tour.

    From Nate Silver (whom I admire as an statistician): "The study doesn't show that. It shows that male players are fined more, but that could be because they misbehave more. (Indeed, from watching a fair bit of tennis, the men do misbehave more)."
    GREAT! Isn't that the point? If Marcos Baghdatis smashes more rackets than Roger Federer, shouldn't he be fined more? And in the global aspect, if men misbehave more shouldn't they be fined more? Which seems to be the case.

    The study, for all practical purposes, is NOT a study. It is a count. The NYT is not saying anything else than "these are the numbers". It is not saying "during important tennis finals, when a man is being coached he is more likely to get no warnings than a woman under the same circumstances".
    But Ohanian donated $7.140 (what is wrong with these cheap billionaires that can only donate some meaningless peanuts when they are so incensed?) to make the situation right, not realizing one initial issue: if there is anybody totally biased about this issue, he is #2. Christopher Cleary is nowhere near as biased as he is.
    But of course, we are at the stage in which you really can have your own facts. If you are rich enough.

    And yes, SHtexas. This thread will never die. Kind of sad.
    Starry starry night

  6. #231

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TennisAnyone74 View Post
    Alex Ohanian argues that NY Times stats weren't the right ones to use.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/tenn...86J?li=BBnbfcL

    TA
    Please, let's ignore this guy. He has zero credibility in THIS matter.

    I wouldn't have either if it was my girlfriend.
    Roger forever

  7. #232

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    And of course ponchi is perfectly right about the proper use of statistics. If you know beforehand what you want to see not that hard to see exactly that.
    Roger forever

  8. #233

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by shtexas View Post
    This thread will never end.

    And for what it is worth, Alex makes a good point.
    It's not going to die. Apparently Serena has given an interview to some Australian outlet that will air this week.
    Towel Avatar, do your thing!

  9. #234

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles View Post
    It's not going to die. Apparently Serena has given an interview to some Australian outlet that will air this week.
    I was wondering when she was going to talk. I have not heard her or Mouratoglou discuss what happened at USO.
    2018 WTA French Open Champion, Australian Open runner-up and winner in WTA player of month voting for January

  10. #235

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by shtexas View Post
    I think like everybody else these days, they got defensive and backed up into their protective bubble rather than consider the possibility that the discussion of sexism and/or racism might have some merit.
    That's why I've taken the last 10 days or so to contemplate the situation. I don't think my post was well worded and I immediately regretted posting it. I will not deny that there is sexism and racism in tennis, I just don't believe this is one of those situations, but I'm going to try to stay open to the points being made by people with a different perspective. I'm sorry if my words caused anyone any harm.

  11. #236
    Senior Staff
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    shtexas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    24,656

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan View Post
    That's why I've taken the last 10 days or so to contemplate the situation. I don't think my post was well worded and I immediately regretted posting it. I will not deny that there is sexism and racism in tennis, I just don't believe this is one of those situations, but I'm going to try to stay open to the points being made by people with a different perspective. I'm sorry if my words caused anyone any harm.
    I was addressing the reaction of the umpires (that they were not going to umpire a match involving Serena).

  12. #237

    Re: '18 USO Day 13 OoP & discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by shtexas View Post
    I was addressing the reaction of the umpires (that they were not going to umpire a match involving Serena).
    Oh,

Page 16 of 16 FirstFirst ... 61213141516

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •