Agree Agree:  16
Likes Likes:  19
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 72
  1. #46

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    What dry said.
    What a performance.

    Philip Hersh
    ‏@olyphil
    10h10 hours ago
    More
    One for the ages: Alexandra Trusova’s detailed scores
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  2. #47

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    I'm not sure what to say about Dancing with the Stars, but an interesting showcase for figure skating. I haven't watched in ages, and certainly don't plan to now. This is good for Adam. I'm not sure it's good for Mirai, but clearly it's what she was after given her previous flippant comments so it likely is for those reasons. But Tonya. A movie is made about her and suddenly it's no biggie she was heavily associated with a violent crime? Alrighty then.

  3. #48

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    There's a bit of drama in figure skating at the moment:

    Philip Hersh
    ‏@olyphil

    More
    My bad. Read too fast. Medvedeva said she intends to work with Orser.,

    @JannyMedvedeva takes the high road in her statement about split from coach.


    There is going to be a lot of reading between the lines of last two paragraphs in @JannyMedvedeva statement. The translation to English is done automatically on RUS fed site. Nuance and exact translation likely missing. Any Russian speaker want try?



    Евгения Медведева: "Хочу поблагодарить Этери Георгиевну и весь тренерский штаб за долгую, плодотв...
    Двукратный серебряный призер Олимпийских игр, двукратная чемпионка мира и Европы Евгения Медведева официально объвила о своем решени...

    fsrussia.ru
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  4. #49

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    There's a report out now that the now former coach is saying that Medvedeva asked that Zagitova be kept out of the Olympics and stay in Juniors an additional year. Given the timing of this news story, who knows if this is true. They can't be happy that she's choosing a Canadian coach, I can't really remember that happening before. There have been skaters who went with a let's call it a Soviet coach living in the US for sure, but I don't really remember a straight up native US or Canadian coaching top Russian talent in the past.

    I'll see if I can find a US news story and update this post.

    http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/0...ri-tutberidze/
    Last edited by JazzNU; 05-07-2018 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Added Link

  5. #50

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    Normally, I only lurk when the subject is figure skating.

    I think it is going to cause a fair amount of dissatisfaction in the Russian Federation that she is coaching with Orser. As JazzNu said, MANY Russian skaters have trained in the US, but with Russian coaches. We'll know what the Russian Federation thought when she finishes 15th at Russian Nationals next year despite a clean skate. G

    But for the rest of the skating world, given her talent I think it is going to be quite a treat to see her skating with Orser's attention to finishing touches and choreography.

    All of that said: There is a country just south of Toronto that could CLEARLY use a female skater of this ability level if she is interested.

    GH

  6. #51

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennHarman View Post
    Normally, I only lurk when the subject is figure skating.

    I think it is going to cause a fair amount of dissatisfaction in the Russian Federation that she is coaching with Orser. As JazzNu said, MANY Russian skaters have trained in the US, but with Russian coaches. We'll know what the Russian Federation thought when she finishes 15th at Russian Nationals next year despite a clean skate. G

    But for the rest of the skating world, given her talent I think it is going to be quite a treat to see her skating with Orser's attention to finishing touches and choreography.

    All of that said: There is a country just south of Toronto that could CLEARLY use a female skater of this ability level if she is interested.

    GH
    You love stirring the pot don't you? They're going to be upset about her training with Orser. If she skated for the US they'll be apoplectic.
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  7. #52
    Director of Nothing
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    mmmm8's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York, New York, United States
    Posts
    51,048

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Ti-Amie View Post
    There's a bit of drama in figure skating at the moment:

    Philip Hersh
    ‏@olyphil

    More
    My bad. Read too fast. Medvedeva said she intends to work with Orser.,

    @JannyMedvedeva takes the high road in her statement about split from coach.


    There is going to be a lot of reading between the lines of last two paragraphs in @JannyMedvedeva statement. The translation to English is done automatically on RUS fed site. Nuance and exact translation likely missing. Any Russian speaker want try?



    Евгения Медведева: "Хочу поблагодарить Этери Георгиевну и весь тренерский штаб за долгую, плодотв...
    Двукратный серебряный призер Олимпийских игр, двукратная чемпионка мира и Европы Евгения Медведева официально объвила о своем решени...

    fsrussia.ru
    I don't think the above is an automatic translation, I think a Russian native translated it into mediocre English. But it's accurate.

    There's also a paragraph about how she grew up with Tutberidze and how much she shaped her as a skater and person. It's very amicable.

    To squash the above convo, she made sure to point out twice that she'll continue to represent Russia.


  8. #53

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    Thank you mmmm8.
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  9. #54

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    My take on the politics of the situation is: Right now, she is and should be adamantly agreeing that she will continue to skate for Russia. But if ("when" in my opinion) they dump her very soon for younger skaters, that tune may change really fast. The easiest thing would be for her to "move" to one of the former Soviet republics. There are numerous ones that have taken Russian skaters frequently. For instance, a former world medalist, Julia Soldatova, "moved" to Belarus when Russia was no longer putting her out on the world stage. Most of them have no or rather minimal success after such a move. My skeptical opinion, supported by the obvious on many occasions, is that Russia works the system against them.

    She will likely suffer somewhat from the fact that when it comes to "younger skaters" with which to replace her, Russia has a treasure trove waiting. I may be wrong, and hope that I am, but I would suspect that we don't see her on another Russian team at World's. They'll give her an occasional Grand Prix assignment.

    Since my divorce from skating several years ago, I have not kept up with major rule changes. I bet Skatingfan and some others will know whether the following is still in effect: But there have always been rules affecting moving to other countries and representing them internationally. The rules require(d) that one get approval from one's native skating federation to skate for another. Often this has been a formality. But Russia may not be so generous if she were to want to skate for the US (to use my example earlier in the conversation).

    Medvedeva has shown herself to be immensely talented and artistic. But she is also in an incredibly corrupt skating system in Russia. I really wish the best for her....she has been so wonderful to watch. I felt sorry for her when she got 2nd at the Olympics. As one of the best female skaters ever, I thought an Olympic gold medal was hers to run away with. But there seems to be no end right now to the depth of quality female skaters in Russia.

    We'll see.

    GH

  10. #55

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    The Medvedeva saga: Orser on her ex-coach's reaction, plus money, choreography. . .& more
    May 09, 2018

    Evgenia Medvedeva’s stunning announcement Monday that she was leaving her longtime coach, Eteri Tutberidze, in Moscow to work with Canadian coach Brian Orser in Toronto continues to make headlines in Russia and to both dominate and invigorate Internet and social media discussions about figure skating.

    After writing about Medvedeva’s move Monday in an icenetwork story featuring my interview with Orser, there remained many facets of the story to be covered. Here are several:

    When emotions run high. . .again

    Orser understands the emotions that led to Tutberidze’s critical comments about Medvedeva when the Russian coach learned Medvedeva was ending their working relationship after 11 years.

    Orser had reacted similarly about Yuna Kim’s decision to leave him after she won the 2010 Olympics. They had been together four seasons.

    “This transition, it’s always hard,” Orser said via telephone Monday. “I had a hard time when Yuna left. I had a hard time when Adam (Rippon) left. You take it personally as a coach. You’re disappointed and sometimes you get angry.”

    Orser, 56, got in a public hissing match with Kim and her management team after what he called “a series of insults,” notably learning from media accounts about her plans for the 2011 season and not having his emails returned by Team Yuna, which rebuffed his criticisms. Kim accused Orser of lying.

    So history repeated itself when Tutberidze, who coached both 2018 Olympic champion Alina Zagitova and runner-up Medvedeva, said on Russian TV last weekend that her messages to Medvedeva had gone unanswered for several weeks and that she first learned the skater was leaving from a news report.

    In the TV interview, Tutberidze also recounted a private conversation with Medvedeva that made the 18-year-old skater look bad. According to an Associated Press account of the TV interview, Tutberidze said that at the 2018 Olympics, Medvedeva asked her why Zagitova, 15, couldn't have been kept out of those Winter Games by remaining a junior competitor for another season. Tutberidze described that question as “this really childish phrase.”

    I asked two-time Olympic silver medalist Orser Tuesday if he now had any regrets about the way he had reacted to Kim’s departure and if that reaction had owed in part to his having been early in his coaching career when it happened. (There was no public acrimony when Rippon left the following year over differences in training philosophy.)

    “Good question. . .I have been reflecting back on that. . .I have no regrets,” Orser said via text. “I was disappointed at the time and even still, I’m hurt by it. At the same time I want her (Kim) to be happy and I always wanted her to do well.”

    Yet when he first talked with Medvedeva about the possibility of their working together at an April 22 meeting with the skater and her mother in Seoul, South Korea, Orser was concerned about the way Medvedeva would address the change publicly.

    “The first thing I spoke to her about was, `They (Tutberidze and her coaching team) have done something right, and you need to be grateful,’” Orser said. “You are here (as a 2-time world champion and Olympic silver medalist) because of them.”

    Medvedeva, 18, expressed just that in a statement released Monday by The Figure Skating Federation of Russia:

    “I grew up in front of Eteri. . .She made an invaluable contribution to the development of me not only as an athlete, but also as a person. From her I got many life lessons. I will remember them all my life. On the rink `Crystal,’ my childhood passed; I will remember with gratitude the time of hard but fruitful work.”

    Through the Russian federation, I have sought to speak with Tutberidze, but my initial request was made after the coach had left for vacation this week.

    Show me the money
    There have been questions raised about how Medvedeva will pay for working with Orser and his coaching team, including coach Tracy Wilson and choreographer David Wilson.

    In Russia, according to what a leading Russian coach told me, coaches of the highest-level skaters like Medvedeva are paid by a combination of money from a special government fund, from the national federation and from the club where the coach works. Those skaters do not pay for coaching, ice time, choreography and off-ice training, but they give the coaches a percentage of their earnings from competition prize money and, in some cases, shows.

    Russian Federation of Figure Skating spokesperson Olga Ermolina said in a Tuesday email, “Evgenia will meet with Orser discussing the work plan and then FSRF (the Russian figure skating federation) can talk about details of training expenses.”

    Orser said he discussed the issue of finances with Medvedeva and her mother in Seoul. He said he charges an hourly rate and takes no percentage of a skater’s earnings. In 2010, Orser told me his rate was $110 per hour; he declined to reveal the current rate, saying, it “has gone up, but not much.”

    Tracy Wilson said she also gets an hourly rate, which varies based on whether she is working alone with a skater or whether she is working with Orser or another of the coaches at the Toronto Cricket, Skating & Curling Club, expected to become Medvedeva’s new training base by late June.

    David Wilson said he gets a flat fee for choreographing a program and that fee covers touch-up work until a skater gets comfortable with it in competition.

    “I told them (Medvedeva and her mother) that for the first six months, it (the cost) is probably going to be a little more than usual,” Orser said. “We’re going to have to jump in with both feet, spend extra time on skating skills and choreography.”

    Since her first senior season, 2015-16, Medvedeva has earned just over $300,000 in International Skating Union prize money for her two world titles, two European titles, two Grand Prix Final titles, five Grand Prix Series wins and for second places at the Europeans, a Grand Prix Series event and the World Team Trophy.

    Medvedeva also has three personal sponsors, Pantene, Nike, and John Wilson blades, according to her agent, Ari Zakarian.

    The Yuna Plan, redux

    Orser said the plan to have Medvedeva work with him and the two Wilsons was based on “wanting to try to keep the same program we had with Yuna.”

    David Wilson choreographed all Kim’s competitive programs in her world title (2009) and Olympic title (2010) seasons with Orser as well as all Kim’s programs in her three competitive seasons after leaving Orser, when she won a second world title (2013) and silver medals at the Olympics (2014) and worlds (2011).

    Asked if he already had some ideas about what type of programs he might like Medvedeva to try, David Wilson replied in a text message, “I’m gonna wait ‘til she’s here and we take some time to know her. I think she needs to have a voice now as well. She can do anything, such limitless potential.”

    David Wilson also collaborates with other choreographers, including Sandra Bezic, who choreographed for Olympic champions Brian Boitano, Kristi Yamaguchi and Tara Lipinski.

    “Sandra has always been a mentor to me,” David Wilson said Wednesday by telephone. “She’s like the fairy godmother or a silent partner for me. We work well together.”

    Bezic and David Wilson just worked together on an exhibition program for another Orser skater, 2018 Olympic bronze medalist Javier Fernandez.

    “Brian, Tracy and David are a dream team for Medvedeva,” Bezic said via text. “They do not need me! But if I were asked I’d happily add what I could.

    “David and I work well together and share ideas regardless of whether it’s a formal relationship or not. We are similar in our approach and how we hear music. . . This is a time (for Medvedeva) to explore her expression as a woman - and the full range of what that can be. . .Since this is coming off an Oly year it all doesn’t have to happen overnight. There’s time for an authentic creative journey.”

    David Wilson did instant choreography for Medvedeva on a solo she did in the 2016 version of Fernandez’s show, “Revolution on Ice.” He said she had never received the email about the music planned for her, so they pulled together a program at the last minute.

    “She was so professional,” David Wilson said of Medvedeva.

    Medvedeva rules?

    Orser said expected new figure skating rules should help Medvedeva as she competes over the upcoming four years with Zagitova and the next wave of Russian tyros, many coached by Tutberidze, some doing quadruple jumps.

    “I have talked to her about some of these rules changing, and I honestly believe it is going to be in her favor,” Orser said.

    One change expected to be approved by next month’s ISU Congress would limit back loading. There are proposals to allow just three (Japan proposal) or just four (Canada proposal) of the seven free skate jumping passes in the second half of the program, when they get a 10 percent bonus. The Canadian proposal calls for allowing just two of three short program jumping passes in the bonus area; the Japanese proposal, just one of three.

    In the Olympic free skate, Zagitova did all seven jumping passes and Medvedeva five of seven in the second half. The bonus missing from the two passes Medvedeva did in the first half of the free skate was more than the point difference between her and Zagitova in the final standings.

    Another change expected to gain approval lowers the base value of the most difficult jumps, with the biggest impact on quads and the triple axel.

    When asked what he expected from the Orser-Medvedeva combination, venerable Russian coach Alexei Mishin said in a WhatsApp message that he also sent to sovsport.ru, “A lot will depend on the changes in the judging system. In my memory, there have been two revolutionary changes: once canceled compulsory figures, and the other ended the 6.0 system.

    “And now number three: less points for difficult jumps and +/- 5 GOE. I don’t like that, but have to accept it. So, after this the situation can seriously change. Will this be in Medvedeva’s favor? I don’t know. We’ll have to wait and see.”

    http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphers...rser-medvedeva
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  11. #56
    Director of Nothing
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    mmmm8's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York, New York, United States
    Posts
    51,048

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    I'm pretty shocked by how low Orser's rate it. I would have expected above $500/hour for someone at his level, where there are probably less than 5 people in the world to compete with.


  12. #57
    Everyday Warrior MJ2004's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,844

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    "Since her first senior season, 2015-16, Medvedeva has earned just over $300,000 in International Skating Union prize money for her two world titles, two European titles, two Grand Prix Final titles, five Grand Prix Series wins and for second places at the Europeans, a Grand Prix Series event and the World Team Trophy.
    "

    Figure skating.. not as lucrative as tennis.

  13. #58

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    About skating as a non-lucrative sport:

    From January 1994 to about 8 years later, there was a ton of money to be made by the top skaters.....competitions, shows, mock-competitions for pros, various other appearances, etc. Since about February 2002, the earnings have been on a downward spiral. Medvedeva is probably not hurting for money with a few endorsements. But still, a tennis player of a similar stature would, of course, earn far, far more. And skating is a very expensive sport in which to participate.

    So you could look at the Russian elite skaters as being lucky for having pretty good internal financial support. The top skaters in the US, either already elite or showing huge promise, do receive help from US Figure Skating and often from some very generous sponsors. And an occasional one will make a fair amount from TV commercials (e.g. Ashley Wagner).

    But I would say that only a VERY small percentage of US skaters, even if we look at it as a percentage of those who compete at the Senior level, break even over the course of a career. That is why a very high percentage of them come from very privileged backgrounds. There are exceptions (e.g. Tonya Harding), but very few make it anywhere close to that level without a huge amount of financial support from the family. We all hear of the occasional ones who grew up in a trailer park and had parents working 3 jobs to support their skating. But far more of them are from families who can make it happen without the 2nd mortgage and the 3 jobs.

    That $300,000 that Medvedeva has won is almost certainly the most that any competitive skater has won in competition over that period of time.

    GH

  14. #59

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    As always thanks for your insight into figure skating Glenn.
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  15. #60

    Re: Figure Skating - 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennHarman View Post
    About skating as a non-lucrative sport:

    From January 1994 to about 8 years later, there was a ton of money to be made by the top skaters.....competitions, shows, mock-competitions for pros, various other appearances, etc. Since about February 2002, the earnings have been on a downward spiral. Medvedeva is probably not hurting for money with a few endorsements. But still, a tennis player of a similar stature would, of course, earn far, far more. And skating is a very expensive sport in which to participate.

    So you could look at the Russian elite skaters as being lucky for having pretty good internal financial support. The top skaters in the US, either already elite or showing huge promise, do receive help from US Figure Skating and often from some very generous sponsors. And an occasional one will make a fair amount from TV commercials (e.g. Ashley Wagner).

    But I would say that only a VERY small percentage of US skaters, even if we look at it as a percentage of those who compete at the Senior level, break even over the course of a career. That is why a very high percentage of them come from very privileged backgrounds. There are exceptions (e.g. Tonya Harding), but very few make it anywhere close to that level without a huge amount of financial support from the family. We all hear of the occasional ones who grew up in a trailer park and had parents working 3 jobs to support their skating. But far more of them are from families who can make it happen without the 2nd mortgage and the 3 jobs.

    That $300,000 that Medvedeva has won is almost certainly the most that any competitive skater has won in competition over that period of time.

    GH
    Agree with all of this. Also, the prize money that she's won is great, because that didn't use to be a thing for the most part. They started introducing prize money in the Grand Prix events in response to the success of the pro tour. Skaters definitely struggle and some families are more well off rather than flat out wealthy so it is a continued financial strain, so there was a time when turning pro was a very attractive option to even some of the younger skaters. Before the pro tour took off and started getting all that TV money, it was mostly Disney on Ice kind of things (literally how I saw Torvill & Dean when I was a kid), and that was just ticket sales, rarely broadcast on TV. The TV money changed things big time. Once the IOC and then ISU started relaxing the amateur rules more, it allowed skaters to make more money while still competing at the so-called amateur level that we see most often.

    Yuna Kim is an example of a skater who has done exceptionally well financially. She's the golden girl over in South Korea, what she endorsed basically sold like hotcakes. Others have had success, but I think she might be Queen Yuna in this area once again.

    As for Orser's hourly. It's plenty high. The last thing figure skating needs is to become more expensive. They are not attracting skaters in droves as is, it really is an expensive sport and it does not get the interest it once did. They also want the most talented skaters, not the wealthiest ones, and that's all what will happen if Orser and other coaches charged something truly insane like $500/hour, it's almost already what happens right now. And these sporting federations definitely do not have unlimited coffers.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •