Agree Agree:  0
Likes Likes:  1
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1

    Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Hi y'all. I know there are a lot of people here who know the inner workings of the pro tours here, so if any of you can help me out, that would be awesome.

    1. I went to the Bank of the West at Stanford last week and at one of the matches, a baseline judge missed three or four calls in one set. I wasn't really paying attention to the line judges, but I realized somewhere during the second set that that particular line judge had been changed. The others were all the same. Does the chair umpire decide that? And if so, is there a set limit or is it something that the chair umpire has discretion over? Also, how does the chair umpire let the line judge know? I didn't see any conferences or anything.

    2. I was watching Escobedo-Gabishvelli this morning on TV and the commentators were saying that he got in as a lucky loser and was notified only 45 minutes before the match that he could take Berdych's spot in the draw. Is there a set procedure for choosing who gets the spot in such a last minute situation? I assume that usually lucky loser spots are given to the highest ranked person who lost in the last round of the quallies, but in this case, with such little advanced notice, did they just see who was on site? It was the first match of the day, so I can't imagine that there were a ton of players around.

    Anyway, I just get curious about stuff like this.

    Kevin

  2. #2

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    On your second question: as you say, highest ranked lucky loser that is around. I guess if all are gone, go ask a doubles journeyman before you settle for tallest ball kid on the premises.
    No idea about your first question. Good one.
    Starry starry night

  3. #3

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattyfan View Post
    2. I was watching Escobedo-Gabishvelli this morning on TV and the commentators were saying that he got in as a lucky loser and was notified only 45 minutes before the match that he could take Berdych's spot in the draw. Is there a set procedure for choosing who gets the spot in such a last minute situation? I assume that usually lucky loser spots are given to the highest ranked person who lost in the last round of the quallies, but in this case, with such little advanced notice, did they just see who was on site? It was the first match of the day, so I can't imagine that there were a ton of players around.
    Perhaps if no lucky losers are on site anymore, the opponent would win in a walkover.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  4. #4
    Forum Director
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    Asteroids Champion, 123 GO Champion, Ball Of Madness Champion, Solitare Champion, Deal or No Deal Champion, Penguin Arcade Champion, Yeti Sports 8- Jungle Swing Champion, Putt it in Golf Champion, Yetisports 10 - Icicle Climb Champion, mahjong Champion, 247 Mini Golf Champion, Flash Golf Champion, Battleship Champion, Magic Towers Solitaire Champion dryrunguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    50,504
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattyfan View Post

    1. I went to the Bank of the West at Stanford last week and at one of the matches, a baseline judge missed three or four calls in one set. I wasn't really paying attention to the line judges, but I realized somewhere during the second set that that particular line judge had been changed. The others were all the same. Does the chair umpire decide that? And if so, is there a set limit or is it something that the chair umpire has discretion over? Also, how does the chair umpire let the line judge know? I didn't see any conferences or anything.

    Kevin
    Do you happen to recall the players involved? Because if one of them was Coco Vandeweghe, I'm fairly certain the line person's body will never be found.
    Become a Kiva lender and help people lift themselves out of poverty. To find loans that are safe, secular, and mostly short in term, go to the A+ Convenience Store at http://starfish.dynalias.org/starred...venience-store. Or, if you would like to support repeat borrowers with a proven track record of repayment, check out CraigsList at http://starfish.dynalias.org/starred/craigslist. Happy lending!

  5. #5

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    I thought they switched the rule a few years ago, so that the non-winners in the final rounds of qualifying are drawn from a hat to determine the LL order. They wanted to correct a problem of top seeds tanking in qualifying rounds, knowing they were already in as a LL
    I don't deny myself bread. I have bread every day.

  6. #6

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Quote Originally Posted by dryrunguy View Post
    Do you happen to recall the players involved? Because if one of them was Coco Vandewehe, I'm fairly certain the line person's body will never be found.
    *Gigglebark*
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  7. #7

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    I believe the answer to question 1 is that the chair umpire has the ability to remove line judges that the chair umpire believes is making poor calls. I do remember that before Hawk-Eye, some of the more boisterous (think McEnroe) players would ask the chair umpire to remove line judges that the player thought were making poor calls. Now that we have Hawk-Eye, the chair umpire can actually tell if any of the line judges are making poor line calls. Therefore, the chair umpire now has objective evidence of poor line calls, as opposed to purely subjective evidence. Since poor line calls actually disrupt play, I would assume that the chair umpire has the right to remove line judges.

    Also, if a line judge has several of their line calls overruled by either the chair umpire or Hawk-Eye, I would assume they realize that the chair umpire is going to lose confidence in their ability.
    My Suicide Draw Pool avatar

  8. #8
    Director of Nothing
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    mmmm8's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York, New York, United States
    Posts
    49,900

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Quote Originally Posted by JTContinental View Post
    I thought they switched the rule a few years ago, so that the non-winners in the final rounds of qualifying are drawn from a hat to determine the LL order. They wanted to correct a problem of top seeds tanking in qualifying rounds, knowing they were already in as a LL

    This is definitely true for slams, but it's kind of a mix for ATP event (same procedure for WTA, I think).

    I know they key thing is that people have to sign in daily. I had to look up the rest:

    Basically, they choose a group by ranking from Qualifying Final Round losers among those who signed in that day and this group is made of (# of spots open + 1) players and then do a drawing, so one man is an unlucky loser.

    -----

    From the ATP Rulebook:

    A player may be entered in the main draw of a tournament if he meets the criteria outlined for a lucky loser.


    1) Lucky losers are players who have lost in the final round of the qualifying event or, if more lucky losers are required, those players who have lost in the previous qualifying round(s). Lucky Losers shall be selected based on the computer rankings as follows: If there are no vacancies when the qualifying event has been completed, then the order of the Lucky Loser list shall be selected on the basis of their position on the Emirates ATP Rankings (singles or doubles) list used for determination of qualifying seeding (protected ranking is not considered). If there is a vacancy in the main draw when qualifying is completed then the order of the two (2) highest ranked players shall be randomly drawn, thereafter the order shall follow the players’ rankings, unless there are two (2) or more withdrawals at the time the Qualifying competition is finished in which case the size of the random draw will be the number of withdrawals plus one (1). In the case where players from the previous round are included in the draw they will be placed behind all players who have lost in the final round of qualifying. Only those accepted into the qualifying competition may sign in as lucky losers.

    2) The lucky loser list shall be posted each day at least one (1) hour before the sign-in deadline, which shall be one-half (1/2) hour before the first scheduled match of the day. If rain or other disruptions occur, then the Supervisor can change the deadline as appropriate. Such list shall not be available for sign-in on the preceding day. All lucky loser sign-in deadlines must be placed on each day’s schedule of play.
    http://www.atpworldtour.com/-/media/...ok_30dec16.pdf (page 108)


  9. #9
    Director of Nothing
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    mmmm8's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York, New York, United States
    Posts
    49,900

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    A Chair Umpire and the tournament Supervisor/Referee have the right to remove a line umpire. But another thing to note is that I believe they work a certain number of hours (1 or 2) then rotate courts, rather than a number of games/sets/matches. So, it's possible the guy's shift was just over. Usually, that would still be applicable to a cohort of line judges, so it would be strange for only one guy to be gone just because his shift is over, rather than all a group of them.


  10. #10

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmm8 View Post
    A Chair Umpire and the tournament Supervisor/Referee have the right to remove a line umpire. But another thing to note is that I believe they work a certain number of hours (1 or 2) then rotate courts, rather than a number of games/sets/matches. So, it's possible the guy's shift was just over. Usually, that would still be applicable to a cohort of line judges, so it would be strange for only one guy to be gone just because his shift is over, rather than all a group of them.
    All the line judges came on at the same time, and none of the others left, so I don't think it was a shift change. As you said, it would be odd for just one of them to leave.

    And it was Bellis vs Cornet.

    Kevin
    Last edited by Pattyfan; 08-09-2017 at 10:48 AM.

  11. #11

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmm8 View Post
    This is definitely true for slams, but it's kind of a mix for ATP event (same procedure for WTA, I think).

    I know they key thing is that people have to sign in daily. I had to look up the rest:

    Basically, they choose a group by ranking from Qualifying Final Round losers among those who signed in that day and this group is made of (# of spots open + 1) players and then do a drawing, so one man is an unlucky loser.

    -----

    From the ATP Rulebook:



    http://www.atpworldtour.com/-/media/...ok_30dec16.pdf (page 108)

    Because it was the first match of the day, I was just trying to imagine what actually happened. I didn't know about the signing in every day. So I guess the players have to give the tournament a cell phone number, and I guess you had better answer if you want to play. I'm just imagining the tournament looking for someone to play the match, scrambling madly and taking the first person who says he can play. IN this case, Escobedo actually won the match in straights, which is not a ringing endorsement for pre-match prep.

  12. #12
    Director of Nothing
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    mmmm8's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York, New York, United States
    Posts
    49,900

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattyfan View Post
    Because it was the first match of the day, I was just trying to imagine what actually happened. I didn't know about the signing in every day. So I guess the players have to give the tournament a cell phone number, and I guess you had better answer if you want to play. I'm just imagining the tournament looking for someone to play the match, scrambling madly and taking the first person who says he can play. IN this case, Escobedo actually won the match in straights, which is not a ringing endorsement for pre-match prep.
    I think it's not a ringing endorsement for Basilashvili (Not quite Gabashvili as you thought, but what's one kinda Georgian to another Georgian)


  13. #13
    Senior Staff
    Forum Moderator

    Awards Showcase

    9 Dragons Hexa Champion Scotty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    11,345
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Two Questions about Pro Tennis

    Somewhere, oohsalmon's ears will be burning:

    Zuzana Ondruskova got in as an LL in ... some indoor European tournament one fall a few years back. Played Serena, who'd had a bye in the first round, so this was the last possible slot that could have been filled by a LL. The story goes, she has been on her way to the airport to fly to the next tourney's qualifying when they called her to come take the court.

    Then Serena beat her so quickly that one commentator quipped, "She might still make her flight."

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •