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  1. #31

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Of course not every minority is a disadvantaged one, but what is he trying to say?
    Roger forever

  2. #32
    Everyday Warrior MJ2004's Avatar
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    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Nobody knows.

  3. #33

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Can he be retired based on dementia?
    Meet again we do, old foe...

  4. #34

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ2004 View Post
    The Jews in Poland? Really?
    SMH
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  5. #35

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ2004 View Post
    The Jews in Poland? Really?
    Indeed. Poland is currently one of the most homogeneous countries in the world because the Nazis wiped out the Jew Population of Poland as effectively as they did in Germany. A lot of people don't even know Auschwitz is in Poland.
    To make that statement is really insulting.
    Starry starry night

  6. #36

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    Indeed. Poland is currently one of the most homogeneous countries in the world because the Nazis wiped out the Jew Population of Poland as effectively as they did in Germany. A lot of people don't even know Auschwitz is in Poland.
    To make that statement is really insulting.
    Yes, but that's not the only factor. The other reason is that Poland lost large territories in the east to Russians who expelled most ethnic Poles from their new lands and they themselves gained a similar territory in the West from which they forcibly removed all the remaining Germans.
    Roger forever

  7. #37
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    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Sooooo... because white men really can't jump the FHA should be watered down? I'm so confused.
    Oh Grigor. You silly man.

  8. #38

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Quote Originally Posted by Ti-Amie View Post
    The entire Thomas dissent that includes the NBA comments is simply horrible.



    I'm by no means a legal scholar or used to reading legal documents but what is his point?
    There are a few moments in his dissent that are truly "OH MY GOD" moments. The allusion to Jews controlling industries in Poland.....I don't even know where to go with that comment. I have long since realized that Clarence Thomas is the worst US Supreme Court justice in my lifetime (with Scalia clearly #2), but this comment really takes the cake. And using the number of black NBA players as evidence that discrimination is gone....HOW could any person of color see that as even a remotely valid argument!!!!???

    GH

  9. #39

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Starry starry night

  10. #40

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    The more I think about it......Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but for me, the presence of those 3 words, "Jews in Poland" in Thomas' dissent are cause for impeaching him. No matter how I try to get my brain around the presence of those 3 words, I can't get over the fact that a man of color in this country could be so completely off base. Either he is totally ignorant of the history before, during, and after WW2, or he is truly one of the most bigoted, heartless human beings ever to set foot on this planet. Either way, he really needs to go.

    But instead, of course, Republicans everywhere are screaming "bloody murder" over what they perceive as a mutiny by Roberts (especially) and Kennedy.

    GH

  11. #41

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    Indeed. Poland is currently one of the most homogeneous countries in the world because the Nazis wiped out the Jew Population of Poland as effectively as they did in Germany. A lot of people don't even know Auschwitz is in Poland.
    To make that statement is really insulting.
    Ponchi, I wanted to give some statistics about percentages of Jews killed in the Holocaust in each country, because I was sure the percentage of Jews killed in Poland far out-stripped the percentage in Germany. This actually makes your argument about Thomas' comment stronger.....I'm not trying to disagree with you at all.

    The Nazis were most efficient in killing all of the Jews in the countries where the native population supported this policy and helped with the round up and extermination. Interestingly, as horrendous as anti-Semitism was in Germany, there was a fair amount of reticence about taking the persecution too far. This was far less the case in Poland, the Baltic States, and others.

    From a web-site called "The History Place": The percentages are percentages of the pre-war Jewish population who had been slaughtered by 1945:

    Poland......91%, 3 million out of 3.3 million. This is the highest percentage of all.

    Germany....36%, 200,000 out of 566,000. Most of the other occupied countries had higher percentages.

    The next highest percentages after Poland:

    Greece....87%
    Lithuania.85%
    Latvia.....84%
    Romania.84%

    Of occupied countries or those allied with Germany, the lowest numbers were:

    Bulgaria...0%
    Finland....0.03%
    Denmark..0.8% (There were basically no organized programs in Bulgaria or Finland to try to round up the Jews, which is a good thing and resulted in incredibly low mortality there. But Denmark deserves special merit for its incredibly organized effort on behalf of the Jews. First, many non-Jews, from the king down, wore the yellow star to confuse things, and then when the Nazis decided to round up the Jews, they effectively organized boats to smuggle them to Sweden. The good didn't stop there.....the Danes carefully took care of the property of those Jews and returned it to them after the war, something that many countries didn't do at all).

    One other country deserves some "bad boy" mention in my opinion. Hungary, for various reasons, did not have any significant rounding up and deportation of the Jews until well into 1944, though Jews were subjected to much persecution at home before then. But when the rounding up got underway, it was done with an almost unprecedented degree of ruthlessness (throwing many into the ice cold river, and other brutal treatment). Only because of the late round up, and the good work of Raoul Wallenberg and others, the Nazi success rate for killing Jews in Hungary was "only" 74%.

    Maybe Clarence Thomas needs to be reminded of these statistics......I can't emphasize enough how appalled I am by the fact that he had those 3 words, "Jews in Poland", in his dissent, using them in the way he did.

    I thought I'd post this early this a.m., because hopefully, by late this morning this thread will move on to some happy news on the same-sex marriage front.

    Wishing us all luck on that one!!!!! GH

  12. #42

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    As always it's not quite as simple as it looks. Germans during the occupation suppressed and terrorized local populations in the East to a much greater extent than in the West. If you read their post-war plans large parts of Poland were supposed to be freed from native populations for settlement with ethnic Germans. All the Slavs in particular were considered subhumans only a bit better than Jews or Roma. Most of the excecutioners in concentration camps were drawn from prisoners of war in the Eastern front (majority being Ukrainians). As for Denmark it was deliberately made a "model" occupation. After all Danes are ethnically close to Germans and such things were important to Nazis.
    Roger forever

  13. #43
    Everyday Warrior MJ2004's Avatar
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    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    It happens that a close of friend visited Auschwitz a couple of weeks ago and and just sent me pictures this morning. I'll spare you the visuals, and just post these two as they fit in so well to our conversation here. Attachment 5278Attachment 5279

  14. #44

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    I agree with Glenn. Thomas should be impeached. He's been horrible from day one but to show how ignorant he is in so public a way shows he's not, and never has been fit to sit on the court.
    "Even if you dance for your enemy on the rock, he will accuse you of splashing water on him." ~ African Proverb




  15. #45

    Re: Supreme Court Watch 2014-15

    I spent an amazingly raw, bleak day in January 2007 going through the 2 camps at Auschwitz that are easily open to the public. It is a difficult thing to go through. On a few occasions, I have also been in the Peace Park and Peace Museum in Hiroshima. I have long maintained that if every human being were required to go through both of those places, the world would have less war. But then I wonder whether some people would even "get it" then.

    I've made a point of visiting Holocaust sites and memorials all over Europe. I've been to other sites in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Czech Republic (Terezin, or Teresienstadt, is one of the more heart-breaking ones to visit), and Germany, as well as Holocaust museums and Resistance museums in almost every European country involved in the war.

    Back to Poland.......Suliso made a really important point. It is very clear now, and there was even plenty of evidence then, that Hitler planned to get rid of non-Jewish ethnic Poles as soon as he was done with the Jews. He did a pretty fair amount of mis-treatment and murder of them as it was. Note the statistics shown from Auschwitz in MJ2004's note above. The first people tortured and killed there were non-Jewish Poles early in the war. Still, percentage-wise, the Polish Jews suffered FAR more.

    Suliso also makes the point that the Nazis were simply more ruthless in their strategy against the Jews in the East. Further evidence in support of that is the horrendous Einsatz-Gruppen in Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states and the rest of the Soviet Union. But still, it was really clear that there was far more cooperation by the local citizenry in the round up and persecution of the Jews.

    I still think, no matter what else was going on with the way Denmark was handled by Germany, the Danes were a real model of trying to do the right thing for their Jewish population. Suliso is suggesting (I think I'm reading your note right) that the fact that this was an ethnically similar population made the Germans less brutal against the Danes. He is probably right, maybe more than I've ever realized. But the evidence is still there that they took great risk to help their Jewish neighbors. In many countries, far fewer people were willing to take that risk, though there were in every country a fair population of good people who tried, and often died trying, to save Jews.

    Ti, thanks for adding your comment about Thomas as well. It is obvious to all of you that those 3 words struck a nerve in me I'll never forget.

    GH

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