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  1. #13006

    Re: Politics Random Random

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzNU View Post
    FYI to anyone who isn't paying attention to the Senate races, that is Lindsey begging for money for his own Senate campaign. Jaime Harrison has him on the ropes in South Carolina and he's been out-raising him as money has come in nationwide for him.


    Me thinks Lady G may have had to pay out a bit too much hush money this year so the well is running mighty dry.
    “No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.” – Lily Tomlin.




  2. #13007

    Re: Politics Random Random

    This is partially why Lindsey is struggling. National efforts to get rid of Idiot have also stepped up for some opponents of his greatest enablers and have been very effective as fundraising tools. This was posted today, and it's just one of many, and has already been viewed by more than 2 million. Doesn't matter if the people seeing it are in South Carolina, because what it does do is raise money nationally for the Harrison campaign to pay for whatever he needs within the state to beat him. Most polls now have it at a statistical tie.



  3. #13008

    Re: Politics Random Random

    Meidas Touch, like the Lincoln Project, has been posting very good anti Tiny ads this season. Admittedly he's giving them material on an almost daily basis so...
    “No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.” – Lily Tomlin.




  4. #13009
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    Re: Politics Random Random

    This little tidbit landed in my NY Times Daily Digest for today. This subject has come up here before on TAT, so I thought I'd pass it along.

    ::

    A free-college experiment

    Free college — an idea that Bernie Sanders helped popularize and Joe Biden has partly adopted — makes two basic promises.

    The first is that by making all public colleges free to attend, the policy will eliminate a major cost for many struggling Americans. The second is that more students from lower-income families will graduate from college.

    But that second promise is untested. Some experts believe that cost is the central reason so many students fail to complete college. Others think that the weak quality of many colleges and lack of student preparation are bigger factors. If the second group is right, free college will end up being an expensive disappointment, not so different from a complicated tax cut that flows only to families with college-age children.

    This week, a team of research economists — Joshua Angrist and David Autor of M.I.T. and Amanda Pallais of Harvard — released a study that offers some of the best early evidence on the issue.

    It’s an important topic because college degrees are so valuable. A degree is obviously not a guarantee of success, but graduates earn much more, live longer and are more likely to be happy with their lives than nongraduates. “The returns to college are so large,” Autor told me. Affluent parents, well aware of the benefits, typically insist their children finish college. Many middle-class and poor children never finish.

    Several years ago, the three economists and the Susan Thompson Buffett Foundation created a randomized clinical trial, like those to evaluate new drugs or vaccines. Some high school students received a generous scholarship — often covering the full cost of college — from the foundation, while others did not. The researchers then tracked the two groups.

    The results are fascinatingly nuanced. The scholarship did appear to lift graduation rates: Among students who planned to attend a four-year college, 71 percent of scholarship recipients graduated within six years. Only 63 percent of students who didn’t get a scholarship graduated. The gains were largest among nonwhite students, poor students and students whose parents had not attended college. All of that supports the arguments of free-college advocates.

    But not every result did. The scholarship had no evident effect on graduation rates at community colleges. That’s a sign that educational quality is a bigger problem at many two-year colleges than tuition bills.

    What’s the bottom line? A nationwide program of free college would be extremely expensive, Angrist said. And many of the benefits would flow to upper-income students likely to finish anyway. But a targeted program, focusing on lower-income students, could have a big impact while also leaving more money available for other priorities, be it health care, climate change — or investing more money in the quality of education at community colleges.

    For more: Biden has proposed a major increase in federal financial aid for higher education, focused on families making less than $125,000 (or roughly the bottom 75 percent of earners). President Trump has proposed substantial cuts in financial aid along with some funding increases for two-year colleges.

    http://seii.mit.edu/research/study/m...7a33f11dfcd63a
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  5. #13010

    Re: Politics Random Random

    The idea that this is untested is ridiculous. It has been tested ALL OVER THE WORLD. There is no country in Europe without at least one or several free universities (I am not sure about the UK), and there is not one single country in South America without one. My sister graduated from Venezuela's central university as a medical doctor for free, and my brother in law graduated from the Universidad del Zulia for free too. My older brother did it as an architect and my dad as an engineer. My GF's dad as a doctor too. On and on, it has been tested all over the world.
    You don't need a f****** highfaluting study to show that if you do not give the lower economic income classes a way to get an education, you are condemning them to a life of underachievement. Don't need to be too smart to see that.
    Face it. It's the apocalypse.

  6. #13011

    Re: Politics Random Random

    Reading through that article and then looking at the website to see more of their research, it's giving me flashbacks to Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed. That is not a good thing.

  7. #13012

    Re: Politics Random Random

    Agree with ponchi of course. My own education has been for free as well. One thing, though. You don't necessarily get very high graduation rates. Most of my classmates I started with the first year of undergraduate program failed to finish the program for one reason or another.
    Roger forever

  8. #13013
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    Re: Politics Random Random

    You are are forgetting that we're talking about the United States here. We don't care about global evidence. In many circles of thought, using the word "thought" rather loosely, if other countries in the world are doing it and having success, then that's a good reason to NOT do something. Government structures, sociopolitical structures, economics, COVID... Y'all should know this by now.
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  9. #13014

    Re: Politics Random Random

    Of course. I guess we would agree that it is not a miracle cure for society's problems, but at least you give people some chance. And the system can be abused; it is, after all, central planning.
    But if you (Suliso) can be used as an example of somebody that made the best of such an opportunity, why not give others the same chance? My problem with the article is the use of the "Lower Income" Americans, which we know what that is an euphemism for. It is the not-so-subtle "let's put another hurdle in your path" GOP/Conservative approach.
    "Yes, we are conservatives. We want to conserve the way things are, or rather, the way things were. In 1905"

    Sorry. For some reason, that article got me angry. Blocking people from getting an education is one of those things that, when I day-dream of being king for a day, would get your head chopped off.
    Last edited by ponchi101; Today at 12:52 PM.
    Face it. It's the apocalypse.

  10. #13015

    Re: Politics Random Random

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    But if you (Suliso) can be used as an example of somebody that made the best of such an opportunity, why not give others the same chance? My problem with the article is the use of the "Lower Income" Americans, which we know what that is an euphemism for. It is the not-so-subtle "let's put another hurdle in your path" GOP/Conservative approach.
    "Yes, we are conservatives. We want to conserve the way things are, or rather, the way things were. In 1905"
    Sure, did what I wrote gave an impression that I disagree?

    What I meant to say instead is that lots of students didn't take an advantage for one reason or another.
    Roger forever

  11. #13016
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    Re: Politics Random Random

    We also have to keep in mind the genuine origins of this debate within U.S. politics. It started with the Bernie Bros demanding student loan forgiveness because they attended these high-dollar Ivy league and private schools, accumulated massive debt, and then faced the harsh reality that they couldn't get the jobs and the compensation they felt they deserved. That's where it started. Bernie gave them voices.

    When people started to complain that this talking point had nothing to do with addressing educational inequality, then Bernie gave rise to the idea of "free college" as a strategy for reducing systematic poverty. It's a noble idea, for sure, and it has succeeded in many places. But 35% of the population doesn't want poor kids to be educated more than they have to be or to a level where they would be able to compete effectively for jobs on par with the children of that 35% of the population.

    Most of the Bernie Bros have zero interest in reducing systematic poverty via equitable educational opportunities. But they champion free college because it could, conceivably, lay the groundwork for the Bros to get what they really want--student loan forgiveness.

    Perhaps I am mischaracterizing their intent. But I don't think so. These guys attended universities they couldn't afford, realized they weren't going to start out with the 6-digit salaries they thought they deserved, and now they are desperate to dig out of debt.

    ::

    That said, if I got a dollar for every Kiva loan description I've read for women in Central and South America who earned degrees in mechanical engineering or architecture but couldn't find a job (because they don't exist or are typically reserved for men) and had to open a grocery store to pay the bills, I could pay at least one electric bill. Free college doesn't pan out for everyone. But I'd like to think it works for more people than it doesn't and that it harbors tremendous potential for intergenerational upward economic mobility.
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

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