If you touch my junk...

[Kirkus]

SAN DIEGO —
An Oceanside man who blogged about a confrontation with security officials at the San Diego airport could be slapped with a civil penalty of up to $11,000 for violating federal law, a Transportation Security Administration official said Monday.

"What he's done, he's violated federal law and federal regulations which states once you enter and start the process you have to complete it," said Michael Aguilar.

Aguilar, the TSA's federal security director in San Diego, told reporters at a news conference outside Lindbergh Field Monday, that the agency has opened an investigation, which could result in a civil penalty because the man refused to complete the security scanning process.

"Once a passenger has entered into that screening process, he cannot opt out of it,'' Aguilar said. "We conduct our screenings under the auspices of the 4th amendment...constitution of the 4th amendment that allows us to do administrative screenings and searches."

MORE plus Video: http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel...,1421539.story

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people can be fined up to $11,000 for deciding to 'opt out' of the screening process. My God, it's like Dick Cheney is once again the President!

I think these full-body scanners are an invasion of privacy, and I agree that the other option -- the new 'pat down' procedures where men's testicles and women's breasts can be touched -- is sexual assault.

It's the TSA going ---->

[dryrunguy]

I like being groped. It doesn't happen very often.

And if it's in the interest of national security, I'm even all the more for it.

::

Seriously, if you don't like it, drive. Don't fly. National security supercedes "personal space."

[Woody]

"No ma'am, that's not a stick of dynamite..."

[Kirkus]

I like being groped. It doesn't happen very often.

And if it's in the interest of national security, I'm even all the more for it.

::

Seriously, if you don't like it, drive. Don't fly. National security supercedes "personal space."

Really? You think so? I disagree.

Something that sets America apart from other countries, for the most part, is our expectation of privacy. Little by little we're losing that. This, I believe, is an ultimate invasion of that privacy.

We're an innovative people. The TSA can find a way to secure flights without electronically stripping us down (not to mention exposing us to radiation) or touching our genitals. The latter being nothing short of archaic and lazy.

Besides, it's not simply 'personal space'. It's our bodies.

[dryrunguy]

Really? You think so? I disagree.

Something that sets America apart from other countries, for the most part, is our expectation of privacy. Little by little we're losing that. This, I believe, is an ultimate invasion of that privacy. We're an innovative people. The TSA can find a way to secure flights without electronically stripping us down (not to mention exposing us to radiation) or touching our genitals. The latter being nothing short of archaic and lazy. Besides, it's not simply 'personal space'. It's our bodies.

But Kirk, we have documented examples of wannabe terrorists hiding explosives in their underwear. What we did wrong with 9/11 is that we didn't anticipate the unthinkable.

If someone got through security with explosives in his/her underwear and killed a few hundred people, we'd all be screaming bloody murder, "Why didn't our government protect us?"

We should be thankful that it hasn't come to cavity searches.

Yet.

[nelslus]

The TSA can find a way to secure flights without electronically stripping us down (not to mention exposing us to radiation) or touching our genitals.

.....Winner of the "Something We Never Expected Kirkus to Complain About" Award.

We should be thankful that it hasn't come to cavity searches.

See above.

[nelslus]

P.S. To the surprise of no one, sadly for me, I actually have to agree with dry on this one- albeit I think an $11,000 fine is over-kill. Public safety is more important to me.

[Kirkus]

But Kirk, we have documented examples of wannabe terrorists hiding explosives in their underwear. What we did wrong with 9/11 is that we didn't anticipate the unthinkable.

If someone got through security with explosives in his/her underwear and killed a few hundred people, we'd all be screaming bloody murder, "Why didn't our government protect us?"

We should be thankful that it hasn't come to cavity searches.

Yet.

And so far each of those attempts have been thwarted with current security measures in place. And, of all the thwarted attempts, not a single one was stopped by security check-points in airport queues.

I'm not saying higher security isn't important. Of course I think it is. I'm just saying strip searches and touching people's naughty parts is simply not the way to do it. It simply goes against basic human dignity and, imo, rights.

When does the trade-off between security and personal rights end?

::

A leading Israeli airport security expert says the Canadian government has wasted millions of dollars to install "useless" imaging machines at airports across the country.

"I don't know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747," Rafi Sela told parliamentarians probing the state of aviation safety in Canada.

"That's why we haven't put them in our airport," Sela said, referring to Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport, which has some of the toughest security in the world.

Sela, former chief security officer of the Israel Airport Authority and a 30-year veteran in airport security and defence technology, helped design the security at Ben Gurion.

He told MPs on the House of Commons transport committee via video conference from Kfar Vradim, Israel, that he wouldn't reveal how to get past the virtual strip-search scanners, but said he can provide briefings to officials with security clearance.

More: http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/F...610/story.html

[nelslus]

OK- actual strip searches- yep, that's going too far. Unless you're dragging someone off to jail for some real terrorism violation- that's too much. Team Kirkus on this particular point.

But, again, body scanners and even ick patting downs- I do think we have to live with these. Better to be safe. I mean, if one terrorist attack were to happen because such searches didn't take place.....

[dryrunguy]

We'll see what the discussion is like when someone finally successfully detonates explosives hidden in their underwear or in a body cavity.

And then we'll have a new thread hypothesizing who's to blame for it.

::

We're dealing with madmen. That negates logic, privacy, and personal space from the equation.

No one is doing strip searches. Yet.

The terrorist scenarios that we've thought of or have learned over time aren't the ones that scare me. The ones that scare me are the ones we haven't yet begun to imagine... But someone out there has.

::

I do wonder, however, how this experience can affect previous victims of sexual assault. That part really DOES bother me.

[missinandre]

Really? You think so? I disagree.

Something that sets America apart from other countries, for the most part, is our expectation of privacy. Little by little we're losing that. This, I believe, is an ultimate invasion of that privacy.

We're an innovative people. The TSA can find a way to secure flights without electronically stripping us down (not to mention exposing us to radiation) or touching our genitals. The latter being nothing short of archaic and lazy.

Besides, it's not simply 'personal space'. It's our bodies.

I can't go thought the scanners at the airport so I have to have a full pat down everytime I fly. It is so comical. I'm supposed to carry medical documentation that states I cannot go through the scanners or detectors. I NEVER carry the paperwork and the security officials have to take me at my word and permit me to pass by without going through the scanners and detectors. If I can legitimately do it without any documentation, so can anyone who doesn't need to. BUT...because of this, I'm subjected to the body pats. It doesn't bother me a bit and....I always ask the security officials if they find anything during these searches and you'd be surprised at the things they do find attached to vairous points of the body. And I'm not talking drugs either.

I don't think it is an invasion. When you go to the airport to fly....there needs to be a minimum standard of keeping people safe. When you have crazies who want to seize control of the airplane with a box cutter, you have to find a way of keeping the box cutter off the plane. It's also called CHOICE. There are rules to follow. If you don't like them, drive or get on a train.

OTOH, I don't think I, or ANYONE should be penalized or stuck with a huge fine if....we change our mind about flying and opt to leave the airport. Now, that is just stupid.

[nelslus]

We'll see what the discussion is like when someone finally successfully detonates explosives hidden in their underwear or in a body cavity.

And then we'll have a new thread hypothesizing who's to blame for it.

::

We're dealing with madmen. That negates logic, privacy, and personal space from the equation.

No one is doing strip searches. Yet.

The terrorist scenarios that we've thought of or have learned over time aren't the ones that scare me. The ones that scare me are the ones we haven't yet begun to imagine... But someone out there has.

::

I do wonder, however, how this experience can affect previous victims of sexual assault. That part really DOES bother me.

For what it's worth- you can google and find examples of complaints due to airport strip searches. So, it would appear that these have taken place- assuming that these reports are legitimate. There apparently have been lawsuits regarding at least alleged airport strip searches.

[manolo]

Yes, the idea is to protect us, but are intrusive searches really the most effficient way of doing it? I mean, just because once a guy tried to detonate explosives hidden in his shoes does it mean that now we all have to take them off because of him? Does that mean that when aforementioned terrorist detonates explosives hidden in their underwear we'll have to take them off too?

The approach to airport security (especially in the US) has clearly been to overreact after the fact, but more as a way of saying "look, we're doing something" instead of it being the result of a clearly thought process that aims to be efficient and preventive. There are ways of achieving more precise controls without it involving lost time and needless invasion of privacy of every passenger.

The idea is that terrorists will always be able to outsmart those checks, so airport security must try to take the lead and be smarter. There are initiatives out there for doing just that, like implementing random unpredictable checks, or using better technology (recently in Norway I went through a machine that scanned your shoes for explosives without you having to take them off, for example) or projecting images in screens that can trigger unconscious reactions in potential terrorists, etc.

There's no shortage of ideas, but it's the psychological factor that trumps all that: people just feel safer if everyone is standing in line without their shoes off and being patted down, even if that is not necessarily making us safer, and on the other hand it definitely is making us waste a lot of resources without much to show for it.

[Jtdrum10]

It is not like the people doing the pat downs are liking their job. Think about it, would you want to touch 90% of the people who are in the airpot like that?

It is better to be safe than sorry, imo.

[elisat]

For me the biggest issue is lack of consistent implementation of current rules. Sometimes it's shoes off, sometimes it's only boots. I always carry body lotion in my bag. They've never asked me to take it out of my bag when I should have put it in a transparent plastic bag. In Dublin, security confiscated my nail clippers but I always carry needles without problems.

So each time there's social alarm they come up with something else, more as a politic measure than a real security one.

I personally find harassed when I have to go through security at an airport. I am glad that I'm not travelling twice a week by plane as I used to.