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  1. #16
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    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    Thinking about infidelity, I have reached the conclusion that the real crime in such a scenario is the tacit, unspoken but unmistakable following statement: “You are not enough”. When a person cheats on you, that is what they are saying. “You are not enough”.
    I don't think that's all. I think in a situation where it's been expressed that infidelity would not be forgiven (which I think it is expressed directly or indirectly in most very serious relationships), the person that cheats is not only saying, "you're not enough" or indulging themselves, they're saying, "I don't love you enough" because they are aware of the high risk of both hurting and losing their partner.


  2. #17

    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    I truly do not think that these situations can always be defined by just one conclusion for all situations.

    I think it is also possible that for some, the message could be "I'm not enough" or "I don't love myself enough" or "I don't deserve to be loved."

    I also think that in some cases, it could be about, "I got damned horny and lost control." I also am not at all convinced that if a person cheats once or twice, this always means necessarily that something is deeply dysfunctional in a relationship.

    Mind you, I also totally respect ponchi's ex-girlfriend's choice. If you make it absolutely clear that you will never tolerate any cheating- and then the person cheats- then, you just have to suffer the consequences.

    And, I have to be blunt about some things. For example: if/when folks post about how to handle raising children- I ain't ever going to say much. I can have all the theories and books and knowledge and all that- and even be able to express intelligent opinions (my first job I was a preschool teacher, I've done a lot of youth volunteer work, blah, blah, blah, blah.) But- I don't have children and never will. So- I don't really have anything to speak of from experience.

    So, I have to suggest that, until you've been in a relationship for double-digit years- you may not truly know how you'd handle such a situation. To make this all the more personal- I had always had a VERY clear "no cheating" policy with my men- and, trust me, if I knew that any of those past bozos had cheated, it would not have been all that difficult to walk away (as I did so for all sorts of other reasons, or they walked away.) But, if you love someone as much as I love John......well, it is just hard for me to think that someone should choose to walk away for one or two mistakes.

    I also get that, if you have a true moral/spiritual/religious code that does not allow for infidelity (albeit- as I did, or thought I did)- so be it. But, life is still gonna send you a bunch of messes, anyways.

    AND trust me- having any kind of high sex drive (nelslus WILL spare y'all THOSE details ) (hell, I'D just as soon not have to know all of THOSE details.....) and being monogamous is very, very difficult. Which makes me VERY reticient to judge someone who makes one or two mistakes, especially after many years of a successful relationship.
    Last edited by nelslus; 04-30-2010 at 05:26 PM.
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  3. #18

    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nelslus View Post
    (my first job I was a preschool teacher, I've done a lot of youth volunteer work, blah, blah, blah, blah.) .
    Those kids never stood a chance, huh?
    Meet again we do, old foe...

  4. #19
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    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nelslus View Post
    I truly do not think that these situations can always be defined by just one conclusion for all situations.

    I think it is also possible that for some, the message could be "I'm not enough" or "I don't love myself enough" or "I don't deserve to be loved."

    I also think that in some cases, it could be about, "I got damned horny and lost control." I also am not at all convinced that if a person cheats once or twice, this always means necessarily that something is deeply dysfunctional in a relationship.

    Mind you, I also totally respect ponchi's ex-girlfriend's choice. If you make it absolutely clear that you will never tolerate any cheating- and then the person cheats- then, you just have to suffer the consequences.

    And, I have to be blunt about some things. For example: if/when folks post about how to handle raising children- I ain't ever going to say much. I can have all the theories and books and knowledge and all that- and even be able to express intelligent opinions (my first job I was a preschool teacher, I've done a lot of youth volunteer work, blah, blah, blah, blah.) But- I don't have children and never will. So- I don't really have anything to speak of from experience.

    So, I have to suggest that, until you've been in a relationship for double-digit years- you may not truly know how you'd handle such a situation. To make this all the more personal- I had always had a VERY clear "no cheating" policy with my men- and, trust me, if I knew that any of those past bozos had cheated, it would not have been all that difficult to walk away (as I did so for all sorts of other reasons, or they walked away.) But, if you love someone as much as I love John......well, it is just hard for me to think that someone should choose to walk away for one or two mistakes.

    I also get that, if you have a true moral/spiritual/religious code that does not allow for infidelity (albeit- as I did, or thought I did)- so be it. But, life is still gonna send you a bunch of messes, anyways.

    AND trust me- having any kind of high sex drive (nelslus WILL spare y'all THOSE details ) (hell, I'D just as soon not have to know all of THOSE details.....) and being monogamous is very, very difficult. Which makes me VERY reticient to judge someone who makes one or two mistakes, especially after many years of a successful relationship.

    Crap nelslus. I've been married for double digits (is 15 years enough?) and I don't know how I'd handle it if my husband cheated or even....if I found out now that he cheated once years ago.....

    The only thing I know for sure is I'd leave in a heart beat if I discovered he was gay or if he fell in love with another woman but that's a whole different shade of cheatin' .
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  5. #20
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    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Just as a sidebar, one of the most successful couples I've ever seen is an open relationship. It's not something I could do, but I just couldn't muster a good argument as to how and why it didn't/shouldn't work for them. They're going on 20 years together. They seem to have a level of mutual respect and understanding that I envy. Yet, they play separately. They play together. It seems to work for them. Who am I to disagree?

    It's just not for me.

  6. #21

    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    I've been in an open relationship before. (shocking, I know )
    Didn't work for me, but more power to those who it does work for!

    Anyway, the "I'm not good enough, so I'm going to sabotage my relationship by cheating" happens more often than you'd think.
    Last edited by Jay; 04-30-2010 at 08:46 PM.

  7. #22

    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drop-shot View Post
    Those kids never stood a chance, huh?
    Please. You, munchin, Beau, Jessie, aedra, jj, Charlie, Zeph, rabbit and Hurricane WERE nelslus' preschool class.

    Nelslus still gets misty-eyed thinking about you tykes fighting over who'd get to play first with Stripper Barbie.
    Old News= Madison Brengle. New News- It's All About Amanda Fink Chichi Scholl, FULL CIRCLE OF LIFE MADISON BRENGLE BABY!!!!!!!!

  8. #23

    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Charlie was so greedy then.

  9. #24

    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie181 View Post
    Charlie was so greedy then.
    Then?!...




    Meet again we do, old foe...

  10. #25
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    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nelslus View Post
    Please. You, munchin, Beau, Jessie, aedra, jj, Charlie, Zeph, rabbit and Hurricane WERE nelslus' preschool class.

    Nelslus still gets misty-eyed thinking about you tykes fighting over who'd get to play first with Stripper Barbie.
    So, THAT's what you call it! Interesting.


  11. #26
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    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nelslus View Post
    Please. You, munchin, Beau, Jessie, aedra, jj, Charlie, Zeph, rabbit and Hurricane WERE nelslus' preschool class.

    Nelslus still gets misty-eyed thinking about you tykes fighting over who'd get to play first with Stripper Barbie.
    I always knew I was corrupted young. Now was this the stripper barbie with the big blonde 80s hair, the magenta lipstick, and the trailer park blue eye shadow?


    On topic: for me, anything involving trust and the breaking of trust is dicey at best. Forgiving is probably the easier part, forgetting is close to impossible. But this is me, some people can forgive much easier than I. I hold on to issues, I don't let them die. It's hard to have confidence in someone who's screwed you over before.
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  12. #27
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    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nelslus View Post
    Stripper Barbie
    Does every TAT thread have to come back to Tatiana Golovin?

  13. #28

    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hurricanejeanne View Post
    On topic: for me, anything involving trust and the breaking of trust is dicey at best. Forgiving is probably the easier part, forgetting is close to impossible. But this is me, some people can forgive much easier than I. I hold on to issues, I don't let them die. It's hard to have confidence in someone who's screwed you over before.
    Which was the gist of my question. I can easily see forgiving a person that has stolen something from you, if they bring it back and sincerely apologize. Easier still, I can forgive somebody offending me: they can take it back, perhaps issue a public apology. But when it comes to cheating, how do you make amends?
    On a subject mentioned here, there is the difference between the "one night stand while I was on a business trip, with a person that I will never see again" and the Second Front Relationship that is ongoing with the "official one". In the first case, I even accept not even mentioning it ever. But the transgression I was hypothesizing about was the second kind. A total different level of deceit.

  14. #29
    TATChat Moderator hurricanejeanne's Avatar
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    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    Which was the gist of my question. I can easily see forgiving a person that has stolen something from you, if they bring it back and sincerely apologize. Easier still, I can forgive somebody offending me: they can take it back, perhaps issue a public apology. But when it comes to cheating, how do you make amends?
    On a subject mentioned here, there is the difference between the "one night stand while I was on a business trip, with a person that I will never see again" and the Second Front Relationship that is ongoing with the "official one". In the first case, I even accept not even mentioning it ever. But the transgression I was hypothesizing about was the second kind. A total different level of deceit.
    I think that there really isn't a good way to make amends for unfaithfulness. I mean, the cheating party can say that they're sorry and swear that they'll never do it again and again, but those are just words. And the temptation will always be there. I'm not even sure if a punishment is capable of making it okay. And does the victim in this situation ever feel 100% confident again after something like this? I don't think I personally would ever be 100% confident in that person again. I may get close to it, but there would always be that niggling little fear in the back of my mind.
    There's a room where the light won't find you
    Holding hands while the walls come tumbling down
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  15. #30

    Re: The perhaps not so hypothetical question thread

    Second round.
    You have a friend, who has a young child. This child is going to an analyst, for reasons that you do not know because you want to respect that privacy. However, you do know that the parent (your friend) is rather pleased with this therapy. But now, through another friend that is unaware of all this (this is not a common friend with the parent of the child), you find out that the therapist is actually a GRAPHIC DESIGNER going through what is called Psycho Analytical Training. Not only is this person not a Medical Doctor (a requirement for a psychiatric license here), this person is not even a psychologist (a four year degree). His expected time for receiving his full license is approximately two years. He is legally able to practice, but only under close supervision from the association that is providing his training. All this is unknown to your friend.
    Although your friend is happy with the therapist, should you disclose this news to her?

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