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  1. #16
    Grand Slam Champion Vlad's Avatar
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    I'll post this here.
    The movement towards acceptance of Climate Change is basically on its final stretch. Only a handful of idiots, mostly of them belonging to the GOP, claim that it is bogus. A few remain that claim that climate change is real but not related to human activities. Those fringe deniers are being defeated by the massive data that is out there and, like the heading of this thread, the visible signs all over the world of what is happening: extreme floods and droughts, extreme snow downpours and other place where not a flake has fallen. It is too obvious by now that the climate (not to be confused with the WEATHER) has changed.
    A call for the reduction of the use of fossil fuels is now on the rise. In some countries, it is almost political suicide to deny CC (the USA being the exception). However, there are some things that jump out:
    1. The price of oil has dropped tremendously and therefore, the temptation to use more oil is there.
    2. China and India have economies that keep growing and more people want to reach a middle class lifestyle, which immediately means a more extensive energy expenditure.
    3. World population continues to grow and we are on target to reach 10 billion by 2050. Even if, as Thomas Friedman has said, you only give each new person a 50 watt light-bulb to use, that is 150 Billion watts/hour needed. No other industry can produce that amount of energy, nowadays, but the fossil fuel industry.

    I started this thread as a conservationist. But I also work for the oil industry and currently I am unemployed. I therefore am in conflict with what I believe (CC has to be addressed) and my personal situation (this is what I do). The Oil and Coal energy industries are a huge portion of the world's economy and employ, literally, tens of millions (and hundreds if you include support industries). Whole countries support their population with oil money (Russia, Venezuela, Nigeria, Iran, the Arab Emirates) and many other need oil income for large portions of their economy (Colombia, Argentina, the USA, Mexico).
    So oil is not going away anytime soon, and perhaps, never. But shifting people OUT of an oil/coal economy is a huge problem, as I can personally attest (I have been trying for years to move to another area of the economy). And if the entire world decides tomorrow that it will move from oil but at the same time will not take care of the massive number of people that would be affected, I am conflicted because I certainly want the world to survive but not at my expense.

    Sorry about the rant but too much free time on my hands.

    I think it will be a gradual process of transition from coal/oil to renewable. No one is talking about cutting off oil consumption once and for all, but rather phase out slowly. How do you do that? Inspire young generation to study new ways of making and storing energy. Most of all, make sure they understand the current environmental issue. I have visited Sierra Nevada mountains in California twice in past 7 months for recreation. Seeing a Lyell glacier (Yosemite) that is so much smaller right now than it was when black and white pictures were taken is striking. This is happening all over the world. All that ice will be water soon and sea level will rise dramatically. You mentioned economic impacts of moving off oil, but what about economic costs of global warming? Imagine the millions and even hundreds of millions of people that will have to relocated because of sea level rise by 2100.

    And you are right, it will take a lot more than just renewable energy instead of oil/coal/gas. I think people should start taking about more nuclear energy production. It can be done in a safe and efficient manner. Also, there has to be ways to make incentives to control global population growth which is out of hand right now. The earth can only sustain so many people.

    I think the saddest thing I see is how people like Koch brothers use their enormous wealth to deny the obvious (AGW). Setting up numerous think thanks, sending money to Congressman, etc. Basically doing everything in their power to delay any sort of action on global warming. People like Kochs are very much against any regulation and for free markets but they don't realize that new technologies of clean energy do bring new markets for consumption and it does grow the economy. Look at companies like Tesla and how fast it is growing.
    "Whatsoever is contrary to nature is contrary to reason, and whatsoever is contrary to reason is absurd." Baruch Spinoza

  2. #17
    4.0 NTRP and falling ponchi101's Avatar
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    You are spot on regarding Nuclear energy. It needs to be highly regulated but there have been only three accidents regarding nuclear energy:
    Three Mile Island (were almost no radiation was released), Chernobyl (which was a major disaster, thanks completely to the Russian idea of building open air reactors) and Fukushima, where it took a 9.4 earthquake to destroy the plant (it was designed to withstand 9.2).
    Coal and gas plants have many accidents, but only one major one: CLIMATE CHANGE. So if you balance both technologies, Nuclear power wins. Unfortunately, as you say, people like the Koch brothers (and the entire oil industry, as I am very well aware) use their power solely to protect their personal interests.
    Where I disagree with you is with companies like Tesla. It gets a lot of attention because their products are beautiful, very high tech (I sat inside one TESLA in Houston and man, it is like a rocket ship) and it makes the news regularly. But in terms of units produced, it is negligible. And they make news because their products are in the fastest segment of car growth: the super luxury segment. Still, you are right. The only way to get CC back in control is with more technology. And that would mean growth.
    We also have to start including a measure of environmental development in our GDP indexes. Otherwise, it looks as if (for example) China is enjoying 9% + growth when in reality, they are just burning their country's future up. An exaggeration, I know, but not by much.
    Missing winter...

  3. #18
    4.0 NTRP and falling ponchi101's Avatar
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    I started this thread almost ten years ago. I talked about the Sierra Nevada (Snowy Range) in my country, and how it was disappearing.
    There is only one glacier left in Venezuela. And it will be wiped out really soon.
    Somehow, it makes me sad.
    Missing winter...

  4. #19
    4.0 NTRP and falling ponchi101's Avatar
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    I am at a loss here.
    Most likely you have heard of the young activist Greta Thunberg. She has been in the news.
    She has said nothing that is not well known. She comes across as sincere and there is no reason to doubt her. Yet I can't make up my mind about her. Is she good for the environmental movement? Is she being manipulated? What can she accomplish?
    Need some help.
    Missing winter...

  5. #20

    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    I am at a loss here.
    Most likely you have heard of the young activist Greta Thunberg. She has been in the news.
    She has said nothing that is not well known. She comes across as sincere and there is no reason to doubt her. Yet I can't make up my mind about her. Is she good for the environmental movement? Is she being manipulated? What can she accomplish?
    Need some help.
    I don't know how to take her activism.
    She is on the autism scale suffering with Aspergers.
    She is passionate about what she believes.
    Didn't she sail across the Atlantic on her own? (not that anyone who has done that is really on their own but still)

    And yet...

    I wish her the best and hope that some creepy adult/parent isn't trying to cash in on her actions.
    There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.

    ― Frank Zappa





  6. #21
    Grand Slam Champion skatingfan's Avatar
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Ti-Amie View Post
    I don't know how to take her activism.
    She is on the autism scale suffering with Aspergers.
    She is passionate about what she believes.
    Didn't she sail across the Atlantic on her own? (not that anyone who has done that is really on their own but still)

    And yet...

    I wish her the best and hope that some creepy adult/parent isn't trying to cash in on her actions.
    I don't think the word suffering is a good way to describe someone with Asperger's. The disorder can pose challenges but Thunberg appears to use some of her difficulties to her advantage, and she's presenting a positive role model for other children living with Asperger's and other Autism spectrum disorders.

  7. #22
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    My main issue with the attention she is getting is that it's publicity in the wrong direction. Climate change is serious enough to be discussed and focused on in the news without distraction. We should be listening to scientists and serious policy makers, not teenagers just voicing their opinion. This planet will melt while we're still talking about the issue in circles.

  8. #23
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    There are a lot of angles to the Greta story. Take your pick:

    1) A girl with a disability (Greta) has emerged as a ferocious advocate for climate change, and many people greatly appreciate the forcefulness and accuracy with which she speaks.

    2) Greta is not the only girl who has been speaking out forcefully on this issue. Many girls have done the same--and with the same passion and level of accuracy--including numerous girls of color.

    3) The girls of color who are every bit as admirable have not been afforded the grand stages and visibility Greta has. Many people are asking why that is the case?

    4) Greta has emerged as a favorite of white feminism, which has simultaneously ignored girls of color delivering the same message and just as well and as passionately as Greta--if not better. And white feminism is resoundingly being dragged for it.

    5) Greta has without question gotten under the skin of male climate change deniers, who (not surprisingly) also tend to be quite sexist and misogynistic. (But the fact she frightens them to the degree she does is quite exciting.)

    Like I said, take your pick.
    Winston, a.k.a. Alvena Rae Risley Hiatt (1944-2019), RIP

  9. #24
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Dallas has suffered yet another odd tornado/thunderstorm. A lot of damage and power out all over town. This is happening way more than it used to and more severe than it ever was.

    Sent from my SM-J737P using Tapatalk

  10. #25
    4.0 NTRP and falling ponchi101's Avatar
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Back at work. For oil people.
    Have talked to two people that I consider to be very, very smart. No, there is no correlation between HUMAN ACTIVITY and global warming. The planet has been warmer in previous eras and this is just a natural process of the planet's warming.
    "Geological events do not happen in 80 years. The correlation between the increase and CO2 emissions is almost 100%"
    "Nope, it is just a natural process of the planet".

    And then I wonder why I can't find a fixed position in the industry. I just don't wear the uniform.
    (Which I would not want to take but I would, because otherwise, I will go the way of glaciers).
    Missing winter...

  11. #26
    Grand Slam Champion suliso's Avatar
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by dryrunguy View Post
    There are a lot of angles to the Greta story. Take your pick:

    1) A girl with a disability (Greta) has emerged as a ferocious advocate for climate change, and many people greatly appreciate the forcefulness and accuracy with which she speaks.

    2) Greta is not the only girl who has been speaking out forcefully on this issue. Many girls have done the same--and with the same passion and level of accuracy--including numerous girls of color.

    3) The girls of color who are every bit as admirable have not been afforded the grand stages and visibility Greta has. Many people are asking why that is the case?

    4) Greta has emerged as a favorite of white feminism, which has simultaneously ignored girls of color delivering the same message and just as well and as passionately as Greta--if not better. And white feminism is resoundingly being dragged for it.

    5) Greta has without question gotten under the skin of male climate change deniers, who (not surprisingly) also tend to be quite sexist and misogynistic. (But the fact she frightens them to the degree she does is quite exciting.)

    Like I said, take your pick.
    I have another one:

    - An out of touch rich teenager with zero life experience trying to teach everyone else how to live.
    Roger forever

  12. #27
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by shtexas View Post
    Dallas has suffered yet another odd tornado/thunderstorm. A lot of damage and power out all over town. This is happening way more than it used to and more severe than it ever was.

    Sent from my SM-J737P using Tapatalk
    I heard my favorite restaurant - Fish City Grill - is gone. Just gone.

    That's five minutes on one side of me, and five minutes on the other side, the Home Depot I always go to was destroyed as well.

    And many homes, condos, etc. in between. A lot closer to me than I realized. Power still out at home, but everything on at the office.

    They always talk about tornados in North Texas, but they were up by the Red River (near the Oklahoma border), not down here in the city. Not any more.

  13. #28

    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Very glad to hear you are O.K., shtexas!! GH

  14. #29
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by suliso View Post
    I have another one:

    - An out of touch rich teenager with zero life experience trying to teach everyone else how to live.


    Well, the flipside is, out-of-touch rich old dudes whose families will be taken care no matter what don't care about other people and are pissed off some weird little girl is taking their spotlight.


  15. #30
    Grand Slam Champion suliso's Avatar
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    Re: Your own, personal Climate Change

    Actually I was repeating a popular opinion from discussions on Latvian internet (I agree partially). Not that people hate her, but find difficult to relate. Regular people, not rich old dudes.
    Roger forever

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