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  1. #17101

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Jeff, I really appreciate your effort to make a statement on this, which is a very difficult topic. I am going to add something that is far more frivolous, but serves as an example of where I am. Other than you guys, I participate in no social media except e-mails with individuals. I don't even do mass e-mailing. But I write quite a few personal e-mails each day.

    I decided quite a few years ago that I did not want to participate in the name-calling and piling on that became the norm in chat rooms, and other precursors of where we are now.

    So now, my frivolous story: In the very late 90's and early 2000's, I participated very regularly for a couple of years in a couple of figure skating chat rooms. Very soon, it became obvious that there was a pretty big population there who felt it was their duty to attack everything anyone said. And there were attackers on both sides of every situation. And the attacks got VERY personal and hostile. Every day, I would say I saw 20 posts that would have resulted in immediate expulsion from TAT, but almost all of them got by.

    Here is an example, a very real and in no way exaggerated example: Michele Kwan was very prominent in skating at that time. For reasons I'll never understand, she became very polarizing in the chat rooms, with some thinking she was totally without fault and without peer, and others, who seemed to start out mostly thinking she was over-rated, grew to overtly hate her. One could literally post nothing more opinionated than "I like Michele Kwan" or "I don't much like Michele Kwan", with the result being that a group of them would jump down your throat. I withdrew from both groups after a couple of years of putting up with this.

    So now, I am completely guilty of predominantly interacting within my "bubble" where people treat others with respect, but at the same time, a bubble where I don't have to listen to Trump lovers. I would not choose it otherwise. But I completely understand those of you who feel we have gone a bit far down the path of leaning the same way and not being overly welcoming to the opposite side.

    Oh, well. GH

  2. #17102
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    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    But you should (BOLD STATEMENT).
    Ok. Thought experiment. Imagine another Venezuelan. He lives in Miami. Middle class, middle age, voted for Chavez in 1998 and supports the revolution. (And these people exist, believe me). This Anti-Ponchi (ponchi102?) holds a diametrically opposite opinion than the one by ponchi101. Whose opinion do you respect to the point of making a proper valuation of the situation? Choosing either one gives you perhaps a better perspective than either one of us because you could really say that you analyzed both sides.
    As I said, it will be hard for me and you to agree on this one (although how I wish we could do this in person). But it seems to me that you are coming from a place where RESPECT takes precedence over BEING CORRECT. RESPECTING a wrong opinion, to me, is wrong.
    And I do not know if you remember a blog I posted IN 2010 (man, am I good at predicting BAD stuff). It has been removed from the forum, so I will re-post it. Perhaps I can explain a little bit better there what I mean.

    (Last. My point was not about HATEFUL SPEECH or INTOLERANCE. There we agree. My point was about validation of ideas. That is where we have diverging opinions).

    You are contradicting yourself a bit, I think. You're arguing for tolerance of varying opinions but you're also saying we shouldn't respect "wrong" opinions. If it's an opinion (rather than a straightforward fact), only the audience can deem it right or wrong. So, then you're also arguing for intolerance of opinions we think are "wrong" - which is the "cancel culture" you're against...

    So, in your example, Dry should both side with you over the "wrong" chavista Anti-Ponchi and also accept the Anti-ponchi's opinion as fully valid and not deem him "wrong" and continue engaging with his opinion as a fully equally deserving one.


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