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  1. #14086
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    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ2004 View Post
    My husband is in Durham NC for work right now and the other day passed by one of the statues shown in this article:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/a...jefferson.html

    He was horrified when he read the inscription. Thing is, he is born and bred in Massachusetts. He's never been exposed. I grew up in Ohio and the sentiments are much more at the surface.

    We've had chances to move to NC that would have really helped him out career-wise and he spends too much time traveling back and forth, but I've always said no. I absolutely don't want to leave my sheltered bubble. As soon as I left college in Ohio I ran to Boston, and I refuse to live anywhere in the states but here (or Cali, if I were rich). I'm sure this makes me sound like a snob, but that's the way I feel.

    munchin, don't feel guilty. It's understandable to want to live in a better environment.
    I guess my problem is I am from the south. Almost every small town square around me has a statue. I don't even notice any more.

    NBC says there are 178 such emblems of the Confederacy in Texas.

    Plus, I went to college in Georgia.

  2. #14087

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    The two places I have lived in US - Corvallis, OR and Philadelphia, PA weren't like this either. Or at least I did not notice any such sentiments...
    Roger forever

  3. #14088

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    My first impressions of the USA were in the South. I went to college in Florida, had family in Georgia, a brother studied in Louisiana and we drove around all the South (Alabama, Texas, N. and S. Carolina, and more). As a kid, I asked the question once of WHY DID THE USA HAVE TWO FLAGS? (I mistook the confederate flag for a valid symbol). The reply I remember most was that the Confederate Flag was for the South (meaning, it still represented the region). Seeing that every state had its flag, I didn't think much about it. It was only much later, while in the North (and by then I was in my 20's) that I only began to understand that it had been a WAR flag waived by the Southern Army.
    The physical South is lovely. Savannah is a gorgeous city, Charlotte and Charleston too. I love N.O. Driving once from Chicago to Louisiana I visited so many lovely Southern Towns, such as Hannibal and Cape Girardeau (South Eastern Missouri U). But it takes an eye to start spotting all the confederacy icons and statues and monuments. It takes a while to see how that permeates everything. How the racism is barely under the surface.
    I would never live in the south again (including Florida). As beautiful as it is, you get the feeling that Mississippi Burning is about to start rolling any minute now.
    Starry starry night

  4. #14089

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    caffe latte person‏Verified account
    @AdamSerwer

    the "man of his time" defense


    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...review/529206/
    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


  5. #14090

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Celeste Headlee‏Verified account @CelesteHeadlee 1h1 hour ago
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    Want to make sure you all saw this photo. It's the line of people in Durham waiting to turn themselves in for toppling the Confed statue.


    There is video too

    ben carroll‏
    @bncrrll

    Walking in to sheriffs office to collectively turn ourselves to say: targeting racial justice organizers? arrest me too!
    pic.twitter.com/YtTTDEQv20
    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


  6. #14091
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    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    I have changed my mind completely. I didn't realize that the Stone Mountain carving was actually brought about by the Venable Brothers and the resurgent KKK. Clearly, it is not a piece of art. It needs to go.

    That being said, a campaign for Governor where this is a centerpiece will never fly.

  7. #14092

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Whenever I see the "Man of his time" or "Those were different times" defense, I always remember this commercial:

    Folha de Sao Paulo Commercial

    BTW: The translation is a bit sloppy. What it says near the end is: It is possible to tell a lot of lies using simply the truth.
    Starry starry night

  8. #14093

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    The Monuments Must Go

    An open letter from the great-great-grandsons of Stonewall Jackson.

    By Jack Christian and Warren Christian

    Dear Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney and members of the Monument Avenue Commission,

    We are native Richmonders and also the great-great-grandsons of Stonewall Jackson. As two of the closest living relatives to Stonewall, we are writing today to ask for the removal of his statue, as well as the removal of all Confederate statues from Monument Avenue. They are overt symbols of racism and white supremacy, and the time is long overdue for them to depart from public display. Overnight, Baltimore has seen fit to take this action. Richmond should, too.

    In making this request, we wish to express our respect and admiration for Mayor Stoney’s leadership while also strongly disagreeing with his claim that “removal of symbols does [nothing] for telling the actual truth [nor] changes the state and culture of racism in this country today.” In our view, the removal of the Jackson statue and others will necessarily further difficult conversations about racial justice. It will begin to tell the truth of us all coming to our senses.

    Last weekend, Charlottesville showed us unequivocally that Confederate statues offer pre-existing iconography for racists. The people who descended on Charlottesville last weekend were there to make a naked show of force for white supremacy. To them, the Robert E. Lee statue is a clear symbol of their hateful ideology. The Confederate statues on Monument Avenue are, too—especially Jackson, who faces north, supposedly as if to continue the fight.

    We are writing to say that we understand justice very differently from our grandfather’s grandfather, and we wish to make it clear his statue does not represent us.

    Through our upbringing and education, we have learned much about Stonewall Jackson. We have learned about his reluctance to fight and his teaching of Sunday School to enslaved peoples in Lexington, Virginia, a potentially criminal activity at the time. We have learned how thoughtful and loving he was toward his family. But we cannot ignore his decision to own slaves, his decision to go to war for the Confederacy, and, ultimately, the fact that he was a white man fighting on the side of white supremacy.

    While we are not ashamed of our great-great-grandfather, we are ashamed to benefit from white supremacy while our black family and friends suffer. We are ashamed of the monument.

    In fact, instead of lauding Jackson’s violence, we choose to celebrate Stonewall’s sister—our great-great-grandaunt—Laura Jackson Arnold. As an adult Laura became a staunch Unionist and abolitionist. Though she and Stonewall were incredibly close through childhood, she never spoke to Stonewall after his decision to support the Confederacy. We choose to stand on the right side of history with Laura Jackson Arnold.

    Confederate monuments like the Jackson statue were never intended as benign symbols. Rather, they were the clearly articulated artwork of white supremacy. Among many examples, we can see this plainly if we look at the dedication of a Confederate statue at the University of North Carolina, in which a speaker proclaimed that the Confederate soldier “saved the very life of the Anglo-Saxon race in the South.” Disturbingly, he went on to recount a tale of performing the “pleasing duty” of “horse whipping” a black woman in front of federal soldiers. All over the South, this grotesque message is conveyed by similar monuments. As importantly, this message is clear to today’s avowed white supremacists.

    There is also historical evidence that the statues on Monument Avenue were rejected by black Richmonders at the time of their construction. In the 1870s, John Mitchell, a black city councilman, called the monuments a tribute to “blood and treason” and voiced strong opposition to the use of public funds for building them. Speaking about the Lee Memorial, he vowed that there would come a time when African Americans would “be there to take it down.”

    Ongoing racial disparities in incarceration, educational attainment, police brutality, hiring practices, access to health care, and, perhaps most starkly, wealth, make it clear that these monuments do not stand somehow outside of history. Racism and white supremacy, which undoubtedly continue today, are neither natural nor inevitable. Rather, they were created in order to justify the unjustifiable, in particular slavery.

    One thing that bonds our extended family, besides our common ancestor, is that many have worked, often as clergy and as educators, for justice in their communities. While we do not purport to speak for all of Stonewall’s kin, our sense of justice leads us to believe that removing the Stonewall statue and other monuments should be part of a larger project of actively mending the racial disparities that hundreds of years of white supremacy have wrought. We hope other descendants of Confederate generals will stand with us.

    As cities all over the South are realizing now, we are not in need of added context. We are in need of a new context—one in which the statues have been taken down.

    Respectfully,
    William Jackson Christian
    Warren Edmund Christian
    Great-great-grandsons of Thomas Jonathan “Stonewall” Jackson
    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


  9. #14094

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


  10. #14095

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Rabbi who helped Ivanka convert shreds Trump's Charlottesville statements
    BY JULIA MANCHESTER - 08/16/17 08:31 PM EDT

    The New York City rabbi who assisted Ivanka Trump during her 2010 conversion to Judaism released a scathing denouncement of President Trump's response to violence in Charlottesville, Va., in a letter to his congregation Wednesday.

    Rabbi Emeritus Haskel Lookstein said in the letter, obtained by New York magazine, that the president should have more forcefully denounced neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups involved in Charlottesville clashes with counterprotesters, resulting in the death of one counterprotester and the injury of at least a dozen others.

    “We are appalled by this resurgence of bigotry and antisemitism, and the renewed vigor of the neo-Nazis, KKK, and alt-right," the letter reads. “While we avoid politics, we are deeply troubled by the moral equivalency and equivocation President Trump has offered in his response to this act of violence."

    The letter comes as the president continues to face backlash for his response to the racially charged violence in Charlottesville that was spurred by a white supremacist rally.
    The president continued to voice his belief that "both sides" were responsible for the violence during a bombastic Trump Tower press conference on Tuesday.

    “You had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest," the president said, referencing those who said they protesting the removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee.

    “Not all of those people were white supremacists, by any stretch," he continued.

    The first daughter condemned the violence in Charlottesville on Twitter last Sunday, but she has made no public remarks on the matter since.

    1:2 There should be no place in society for racism, white supremacy and neo-nazis.

    — Ivanka Trump (@IvankaTrump) August 13, 2017
    2:2 We must all come together as Americans -- and be one country UNITED. #Charlottesville

    — Ivanka Trump (@IvankaTrump) August 13, 2017

    Lookstein penned the letter along with Rabbi Chaim Steinmetz and Rabbi Elie Weinstock to the members of Congregation Kehilath Jeshurun, which is located in Manhattan.

    Lookstein was slated to give the invocation at last year's Republican National Convention but stepped down due to backlash from various members of the Jewish community.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...rnd=1502929903
    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


  11. #14096

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Interesting:


    Tsundoku
    12:07 PM EDT
    Jonathan Horn, the author of the Lee biography, “The Man Who Would Not Be Washington" was on PBS yesterday. Robert E Lee opposed monuments, specifically Confederate war monuments. He wrote: “I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.” Lee believed countries that erased visible signs of civil war recovered from conflicts quicker. He was worried that by keeping these symbols alive, it would keep the divisions alive.
    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


  12. #14097

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Re that letter from the descendants of Stonewall Jackson who reference their black family members:


    I’m black. Robert E. Lee is my ancestor. His statues can’t come down soon enough.
    Defenders of Confederate monuments are again trying to rewrite an ugly chapter in our nation’s history. If my family can move on, so can they.

    By Karen Finney August 15 at 3:30 PM
    Karen Finney was a senior spokesperson for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and is a former MSNBC host. She will be a Fall 2017 fellow at the Harvard Institute of Politics.

    As the biracial daughter of Jim Finney, a black civil rights lawyer descended from enslaved Virginians, and Mildred Lee, a white social worker and the great-great-great niece of Confederate General Robert E. Lee — of whom statues stand in many cities and towns, including, now infamously, Charlottesville — my American story is complicated.

    About a year ago, I made a discovery that reminded me of just how complicated both my family’s and our nation’s painful journey on race and equality has been. I found two letters that my maternal grandmother, also named Mildred Lee, had written to my father. In the first, four-page, single-spaced typed letter, she laid out arguments why my dad should leave my mom and not marry her as they’d planned. Not only was marrying illegal in their respective home states of Virginia and North Carolina, in 1967, their forthcoming interracial marriage, she explained, was against the “natural order of things,” in which black and white have their place.”

    Quoting the Bible, she argued that their marriage would bring permanent disrepute, shame and irreparable damage not only to my mother’s life but also the lives of the whole family. A month later, my parents were married in a simple ceremony in New York City. In a second letter, sent less than a week before I was born, my grandmother described miscegenation as a sin and a stain that would never be made clean, quoting the Bible and invoking “the way of things.”

    The woman who wrote these letters sounded nothing like the loving grandmother I knew and adored growing up, who always brought presents when she visited from North Carolina, and exhaustively searched to find me a beautiful doll that exactly matched my mocha skin color. But her underlying fear and anxiety at the time were bound up with a family tradition that had placed Lee on a pedestal — figuratively, if not literally — in the way she remembered and recounted the Lee family heritage, with great pride and even a sense of superiority. I grew up with heroically framed, but demonstrably false, stories about “The General”: that he was a reluctant warrior who didn’t really want to own slaves or fight the Civil War, stories that were consistent with the 20th century revisionist narrative of the “War of Northern Aggression,” rewriting Civil War and southern history.

    I always fiercely disagreed with my grandmother’s narrative. I loved her, but recognized that she simply couldn’t face the truth — one that for her was very personal, but ran counter to the dramatically different, and all too true, stories of brutal tyranny, courageously endured, during reconstruction and the Jim Crow south that I learned from my father and his family, and my own experience. I love my whole family and our American story because it made me who I am today.

    No telling of General Lee’s story, however complicated, can be separated from the symbolism of the leading role he played in a grievous chapter of American history. That part — and the decisions by Charlottesville’s city council, New Orleans’s mayor and Lexington, Kentucky’s mayor to move forward with removing Confederate statues from places of honor in public spaces — isn’t complicated. The general was as cruel a slave owner as any other and fought to preserve and defend a society based on the brutal enslavement of black people that, had it persisted until today, would have included me. His cause wasn’t righteous, then or now. He’s my ancestor, and as far as I’m concerned, his statues can’t come down soon enough.

    The revisionist version of his story attached to the hundreds of Confederate monuments around the country (not just in the South) is part of the most effective re-branding campaign ever implemented. Like the Lee statue recently taken down in New Orleans, and the statue that was at the center of the tragic, deadly violence in Charlottesville on Saturday, many, if not most, of these monuments were built — not in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War — but decades later, in the 20th century. They were built to perpetuate a dishonest history that claimed the war was about states’ rights and the preservation of a way of life, and to obscure the real cause at the root of the Civil War: the perpetuation of white supremacy and economic hegemony through the enslavement and violent suppression of African Americans. It’s propaganda that has exploited fear, sowed division and hate in a conscious effort to obscure our shared humanity for more than 150 years.

    The images from Charlottesville and calls to defend General Lee echo the mythology I heard from my grandmother so long ago. As Robert Cvjetanovic, a University of Nevada student who participated in last week’s Charlottesville protests, told his local news: “I do believe that the replacement of the statue will be the slow replacement of white heritage within the U.S. and the people who fought and defended and built their homeland. Robert E. Lee is a great example of that. He wasn’t a perfect man, but I want to honor and respect what he stood for during his time.”

    Which made me think about the post-election studies that showed cultural anxiety, fear of diversity and racial resentment superseded economic concerns for many white working-class voters in 2016. And how those fears coexist with the reality of persistent bigotry, inequality and fear of the othering which denies opportunity to so many Americans, just as my family’s history co-exists with very different journeys in our larger American story. These painful truths persist despite the progress that has been made, in my lifetime, with policies aimed at creating a fairer system, equal access, and the opportunity for Americans to live, go to school and work side by side, and to break down bigotry and stereotypes.

    My mother’s family didn’t attend my parents’ wedding, and they only met my father a handful of times in what were very painful, awkward moments that included my college graduation. There they were, my mom and dad, grandma and me. They put aside years of anger, pain and resentment. Last year, when my father died, members of my mother’s family joined me, my mom and my father’s family for the service to pay their respects. It was a powerful moment for all of us, one that none of us could have even imagined 50 years ago when I was born.

    My unique family history has been messy and painful, but also inspiring. Most importantly, this heritage from opposite sides of the color line allowed me the opportunity to bear witness that it is possible to move forward. After the tragic deaths of Heather Heyer and Virginia state troopers Berke Bates and Jay Cullen, I don’t want to see another person die because of a legacy of lies, division and fear.

    If we want to move forward as Americans, we have to have an honest dialogue about our shared history. A first step is acknowledging that Robert E. Lee, and his legacy, don’t deserve to be honored or defended. He’s part of my history and a member of my family. And it’s time that his statues come down. It’s time to move on.

    Correction: General Lee is the author’s great-great-great-great uncle, not her great-great-great-great-great uncle.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4a7906899b12
    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


  13. #14098

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Senator Tim Kaine‏Verified account @timkaine 24h24 hours ago
    More
    Joined many with heavy hearts at the memorial service honoring Heather Heyer’s life today. We should all aspire to love people as she did

    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


  14. #14099
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    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    On the local news last night there was a story of a Denton, Texas man who has been trying to have a Confederate statue removed from the town square for 17 years now. He is now trying a different approach. He says leave it up, but also put up a statue in the square honoring black history.

    Sort of like "look at the progress we have made" - from that, to this.

  15. #14100

    Re: National, Regional and Local News

    Warrants issued for N.H. white supremacist
    By Steve Annear and Michael Levenson GLOBE STAFF AUGUST 17, 2017

    A white supremacist from Keene, N.H., who was prominently featured in a recent Vice News documentary about the violence in Charlottesville, is wanted for arrest on charges in Virginia, according to authorities.

    Christopher Cantwell, who is seen in the documentary denouncing Jews and declaring, “a lot more people are gonna die before we’re done here,” has two outstanding warrants stemming from the rally where a counterprotester was killed last weekend.

    Officials from the Virginia Commonwealth Attorney’s Office said Thursday that Cantwell is wanted for illegal use of gases, and injury by caustic agent or explosive. Both are felony charges, officials said.

    In a video that surfaced on YouTube this week, following the unrest in Charlottesville, Cantwell appears to be weeping as he discusses the possibility of warrants out for his arrest in Virginia.

    In the video, which was posted by RawStory.com and the Keene Sentinel, Cantwell says he reached out to police in Keene to ask for advice.

    Through apparent tears, he offers to turn himself in to police.

    “If I have to go to jail today, it won’t be the [expletive] first time,” Cantwell says in the nearly five-minute video. “I don’t want to; I don’t think I should. I honestly think that I have been law-abiding.”

    Cantwell did not immediately return a request for comment.

    Cantwell was a featured name on fliers promoting the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” rally where Heather Heyers was killed after a car plowed into a crowd of counterprotesters.

    He moved to New Hampshire from New York in 2012, and is listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as an “anti-Semitic, Alt-Right shock jock and an unapologetic fascist who spews white nationalist propaganda.”

    Cantwell has said that he relocated to Keene as part of the “free state” movement, which seeks to draw libertarians to New Hampshire, known as the “Live Free or Die” state.

    When he first moved to New Hampshire, Cantwell was “just an angry libertarian comedian who had a major hatred for the police,” according to a blog posted Wednesday on FreeKeene.com, which is affiliated with the free-state movement.

    The blog noted that while such views are not uncommon among libertarians, “they were voiced by him loudly enough to get him kicked out of the Free State Project and ostracized by a bunch of people.”

    Then, “A couple of years ago, he began down this road to his current skinhead-racist form,” the blog said.

    Besides the warrants, Cantwell this week also ran into trouble on social media, where he used several platforms to promote his views, including a podcast.

    Cantwell told the Associated Press that since his appearance on the Vice News segment, where he blasted President Trump for allowing his daughter, Ivanka, to marry Jared Kushner, who is Jewish, his Facebook and Instagram accounts have been deactivated.

    He claimed that his PayPal account was also shutdown, although the company would not confirm it, the report said.

    In a blog post apparently authored by Cantwell Thursday, on ChristopherCantwell.com, the Keene resident references his participation in the Charlottesville protests.

    “Depending on who you listen to, I’m either a hero, a terrorist, or a crybaby, which should tell you something about the reliability of the media,” the post said. “In reality, I’m just a guy who wants to save his country from communism, and is often quite terrified at how much resistance he meets in doing so.”

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nati...ng_Most_Viewed
    "For the person that we know in the daytime, we don't need to light a lamp to see his face at night." Ghanaian Proverb


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