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  1. #4876

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    This nose looks very strange in that photo.

  2. #4877

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie02123 View Post
    This nose looks very strange in that photo.
    It looks like it has been highlighted, bronzed and contoured.

    I love that this was the first message in a thread where I expected to find a raging discussion on whether to freeze the rankings or not.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  3. #4878

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganFernandez View Post
    It looks like it has been highlighted, bronzed and contoured.

    I love that this was the first message in a thread where I expected to find a raging discussion on whether to freeze the rankings or not.
    I don't think there's discussion yet, but I posted the information about the rankings being frozen in the COVID19 & Tennis thread. I believe we briefly discussed rankings in either the IW thread or the Tennis 2.0 thread soon after IW was cancelled.

  4. #4879
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    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzNU View Post
    I don't think there's discussion yet, but I posted the information about the rankings being frozen in the COVID19 & Tennis thread. I believe we briefly discussed rankings in either the IW thread or the Tennis 2.0 thread soon after IW was cancelled.
    It will be interesting to know how it will work when the tours resume . Especially in the WTA with players like Gauff on a limited schedule


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  5. #4880
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    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    ATP ranking update

    Ranking will now cover a period of 22 months (March 2019 – December 2020).

    The ATP has today announced how the revised FedEx ATP Rankings will be calculated once the Tour resumes. The Rankings, which reflect a player’s standing among the world’s best players and are used for tournament entry and seedings, are the lifeblood of professional tennis.
    In anticipation of a return to competition in August, the Rankings, which traditionally operate on a "Best 18" results basis over 52 weeks, will now cover a period of 22 months (March 2019 – December 2020). The Rankings have been frozen since 16 March 2020, just days after the ATP Tour was suspended due to the COVID-19 pandemic..
    The revised Rankings system aims to deliver the following key objectives:

    • Provide flexibility & fairness to players across all levels in parallel with the condensed number of points available as part of the revised provisional 2020 calendar.
    • Provide stability for players who cannot or prefer not to compete in 2020 due to health & safety.
    • Provide a system that can adapt to further changes in the calendar if necessary.
    • Reward players who perform well following the resumption of the Tour in 2020.
    • Retain the principle of defending tournament points week by week in 2021, maintaining player mobility in the rankings.


    https://www.atptour.com/en/news/atp-...ents-july-2020


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  6. #4881

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Digging into this more, it pretty much freezes everything in place. No ranking points will fall off, but you can improve an old result.

    The likely effects:

    The top 5/6 are essentially guaranteed spots at the World Tour Finals. They are throwing the race out the window, and just going with whatever the top 8 in the rankings will be. #4 Federer has said he's out for the year, but you can definitely pencil in Djokovic, Nadal, Thiem, Medvedev, and Tsitsipas.

    Djokovic is a considerable favorite for year end #1. Even though Nadal is only 370 points behind, there are very few chances for him to gain any points. Djokovic could lock it down with good results at the Cincinnati/USO duo. If he doesn't, they might possibly have a showdown at the WTF.

    Nadal won't get screwed out of a top 2 spot by defending so many of his points at once. He was going to have to defend 5000 points in six weeks. Now those are locked in.

  7. #4882
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    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Much less important, but I wonder what they're going to be about records, like weeks at #1...

    edit: Actually, does the ATP even recognize any of those kinds of records? Or all they all just fan-made lists?
    Last edited by Woody; 07-06-2020 at 06:08 PM.

  8. #4883

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Rankings were suspended in the middle of March, and will start back up once official tournaments start again, so nothing will count during that time. It's not like the normal off-season where you can still wrack up time at #1. Challengers and Futures are still happening during that time, so the rankings normally never stop.

    Speaking of Challengers and Futures, that's where some real chaos could happen. The whole "you get to keep your 2019 points" thing is only for tour level events. Because Challengers and Futures are never stable, they're sticking to the normal 52 week expiration date. Meanwhile, lots of those smaller tournaments are being cancelled.

    About records, I can't see how there won't be a big old asterisk for the year end #1 for this year. If Djokovic and Nadal both don't win a single match at the US Open or French Open, and another player wins both, that player still wouldn't crack the top 2. Even #3 Thiem would still be #3 (although close).

  9. #4884
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    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    Much less important, but I wonder what they're going to be about records, like weeks at #1...

    edit: Actually, does the ATP even recognize any of those kinds of records? Or all they all just fan-made lists?

    Don't have an answer to the first question, but regarding the second question, yes, the ATP recognizes and often puts in their media notes the various records/stats and used to publish them in their media book. Greg Sharko is the ATP's statistics guru.


  10. #4885

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie02123 View Post
    Speaking of Challengers and Futures, that's where some real chaos could happen. The whole "you get to keep your 2019 points" thing is only for tour level events. Because Challengers and Futures are never stable, they're sticking to the normal 52 week expiration date. Meanwhile, lots of those smaller tournaments are being cancelled.
    Spare yet another thought for the Futures and Challenger players, after being screwed on the ITF Transition Tour last year and now this. But if everyone is losing points and no one has a chance to gain points, won't they all eventually reset to 0? Big advantage to those who already won matches this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie02123 View Post
    About records, I can't see how there won't be a big old asterisk for the year end #1 for this year. If Djokovic and Nadal both don't win a single match at the US Open or French Open, and another player wins both, that player still wouldn't crack the top 2. Even #3 Thiem would still be #3 (although close).
    I don't think there will be an asterisk on the rankings since those three, particularly Nadal and Djokovic, were already so dominant. History will give them the benefit of the doubt regarding whether they would have defended most of their points had they tried to.

    Nadal is the big winner here and maybe Andreescu. No way he plays Cincy or the US Open now.
    Last edited by MeganFernandez; 07-07-2020 at 11:30 AM.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  11. #4886

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    If Rafael Nadal has ever played a Grand Slam because of points or ranking, I will be surprised. And the same applies to Novak and Roger.
    I truly believe these three guys are driven by something else, including each other.
    Face it. It's the apocalypse.

  12. #4887

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    If Rafael Nadal has ever played a Grand Slam because of points or ranking, I will be surprised. And the same applies to Novak and Roger.
    I truly believe these three guys are driven by something else, including each other.
    Novak plays for the love of the fans. In that regard, he hasn't won a single slam.
    Towel Avatar, do your thing!

  13. #4888

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganFernandez View Post
    I don't think there will be an asterisk on the rankings since those three, particularly Nadal and Djokovic, were already so dominant. History will give them the benefit of the doubt regarding whether they would have defended most of their points had they tried to.
    No big complaint from me if Djokovic or Nadal wins one of the last two, and ends up #1. I think Thiem would have a legitimate complaint if he wins one. I think if another player, in the middle of all this chaos, wins both, he'd also have a legitimate complaint.

    There's also no way it doesn't come up for the next several years in the GOAT debate. But yeah, it's probably no biggie.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganFernandez View Post
    Nadal is the big winner here and maybe Andreescu. No way he plays Cincy or the US Open now.
    Keep in mind that this announcement is only for the ATP. The WTA hasn't made an announcement yet. I assume it will be something very similar (since the ATP made theirs in consultation with the slams), but it isn't official yet.

    Djokovic and Nadal are massive winners from this. The biggest winner to me might be Matteo Berrettini. He had sophomore slump written all over him. Now he gets to keep his shocking USO semifinal for another year, and he's currently qualified for another WTF spot.

    Similar to Berrettini, if the WTA comes up with the same rules, the biggest winner will be Vondrousova.

  14. #4889

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchi101 View Post
    If Rafael Nadal has ever played a Grand Slam because of points or ranking, I will be surprised. And the same applies to Novak and Roger.
    I truly believe these three guys are driven by something else, including each other.
    Agree, although I think they're strategic enough to play for points when they need to, to maintain ranking and better their chances of winning Slams. I just don't think they prioritize rankings over health and happiness. Just part of their bigger goals. That's probably typical, actually.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  15. #4890

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie02123 View Post
    No big complaint from me if Djokovic or Nadal wins one of the last two, and ends up #1. I think Thiem would have a legitimate complaint if he wins one. I think if another player, in the middle of all this chaos, wins both, he'd also have a legitimate complaint.

    There's also no way it doesn't come up for the next several years in the GOAT debate. But yeah, it's probably no biggie.



    Keep in mind that this announcement is only for the ATP. The WTA hasn't made an announcement yet. I assume it will be something very similar (since the ATP made theirs in consultation with the slams), but it isn't official yet.

    Djokovic and Nadal are massive winners from this. The biggest winner to me might be Matteo Berrettini. He had sophomore slump written all over him. Now he gets to keep his shocking USO semifinal for another year, and he's currently qualified for another WTF spot.

    Similar to Berrettini, if the WTA comes up with the same rules, the biggest winner will be Vondrousova.
    Good point about Berrettini and Vondrusova, WTA decision pending. Also Barty, who may or may not have replicated her French Open success. And as Chris Oddo pointed out on Twitter, Dominic Koepher, surprise USO R4 last year. Another big winner: Medvedev. Lots of points accumulated in July and August last year.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

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