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  1. #4891
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    omess's Avatar
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    Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    The WTA will adopt the same model than the ATP


    https://www.wtatennis.com/news/17178...ranking-system


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    Last edited by omess; 07-09-2020 at 11:38 AM.

  2. #4892

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by omess View Post
    The WTA will adopt the same model than the ATP


    https://www.wtatennis.com/news/17178...ranking-system


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm confused on whether a player could play the 2020 event but still keep the 2019 points if they did better in 2019. I can see the tours doing this - letting them play and keep the higher points from 2019 or 2020 - to incentivize participation this year. But it seems weird. If you decide to play, seems like your 2020 points should replace 2019 no matter the outcome.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  3. #4893

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganFernandez View Post
    I'm confused on whether a player could play the 2020 event but still keep the 2019 points if they did better in 2019. I can see the tours doing this - letting them play and keep the higher points from 2019 or 2020 - to incentivize participation this year. But it seems weird. If you decide to play, seems like your 2020 points should replace 2019 no matter the outcome.
    That's exactly the case, except for the WTF/YEC and challengers/futures. Those will drop off like normal. So players who didn't qualify and also didn't play any challengers can't possibly lose any points.

  4. #4894

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie02123 View Post
    That's exactly the case, except for the WTF/YEC and challengers/futures. Those will drop off like normal. So players who didn't qualify and also didn't play any challengers can't possibly lose any points.
    Also, to clarify: If Bencic enters the 2020 US Open and loses in the third round, she gets to keep her 2019 semifinal points instead? I understand she keeps 2019 if she doesn't enter the US Open at all. But what if she does? She would keep the higher of her 2019 or 2020 points?

    If that's right, then your summation is correct - and so weird! But also good. I just figured if you decide to play the 2020 event, you'll have to accept those points no matter the outcome. The way they're doing it is the rankings version of the let-serve rule - the outcome determines the stakes.
    Last edited by MeganFernandez; 07-10-2020 at 11:26 AM.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  5. #4895

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganFernandez View Post
    Also, to clarify: If Bencic enters the 2020 US Open and loses in the third round, she gets to keep her 2019 semifinal points instead? I understand she keeps 2019 if she doesn't enter the US Open at all. But what if she does? She would keep the higher of her 2019 or 2020 points?

    If that's right, then your summation is correct - and so weird! But also good. I just figured if you decide to play the 2020 event, you'll have to accept those points no matter the outcome. The way they're doing it is the rankings version of the let-serve rule - the outcome determines the stakes.
    Yes, exactly. So Nadal gets to keep his winning points from the US Open and French Open no matter what happens. Any tournament played where the defending champion doesn't repeat will have two defending champions (pointswise) in 2021.

    That's why I think the biggest winners are players with a shock result from 2019. It's also not too shabby for players in the 100-128 range who now get to play two slams without having to qualify.

    Not the greatest deal for anyone who does well in the miniature 2020 clay season, because they'll only get to keep their points for 7-8 months. Lots of doubles players and challenger players are pretty boned.

  6. #4896

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    When do challenger points drop for those tournaments which were canceled from March till the start of the first new one?
    Roger forever

  7. #4897

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie02123 View Post
    Yes, exactly. So Nadal gets to keep his winning points from the US Open and French Open no matter what happens. Any tournament played where the defending champion doesn't repeat will have two defending champions (pointswise) in 2021.

    That's why I think the biggest winners are players with a shock result from 2019. It's also not too shabby for players in the 100-128 range who now get to play two slams without having to qualify.

    Not the greatest deal for anyone who does well in the miniature 2020 clay season, because they'll only get to keep their points for 7-8 months. Lots of doubles players and challenger players are pretty boned.
    Thanks for doing the analysis. It made my head hurt. Definitely players with a shock result are lucky.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  8. #4898

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by suliso View Post
    When do challenger points drop for those tournaments which were canceled from March till the start of the first new one?
    Challengers are still on the 52-week system, so those points drop in 1 year from the event, no mater what.
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  9. #4899

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie02123 View Post
    Yes, exactly. So Nadal gets to keep his winning points from the US Open and French Open no matter what happens. Any tournament played where the defending champion doesn't repeat will have two defending champions (pointswise) in 2021.

    That's why I think the biggest winners are players with a shock result from 2019. It's also not too shabby for players in the 100-128 range who now get to play two slams without having to qualify.

    Not the greatest deal for anyone who does well in the miniature 2020 clay season, because they'll only get to keep their points for 7-8 months. Lots of doubles players and challenger players are pretty boned.
    Will an event only count once? Someone can't count their 2019 and 2020 US Opens among their best 16 results, can they?
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  10. #4900

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganFernandez View Post
    Challengers are still on the 52-week system, so those points drop in 1 year from the event, no mater what.
    I understand that, but right now rankings are completely frozen aren't they? So do they all drop at once the second week of August?
    Roger forever

  11. #4901

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by suliso View Post
    I understand that, but right now rankings are completely frozen aren't they? So do they all drop at once the second week of August?
    I don't know. Maybe? My head hurts...
    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

  12. #4902

    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    How will 2020 ATP Challenger Tour /ITF World Tennis Tour events played after the Tour resumption count toward a player’s ranking?
    Any points obtained at ATP Challenger Tour/ITF World Tennis Tour events upon Tour resumption will be considered among a player's ‘Best of Other Countable’ results. A result obtained in 2020 that is not better than his lowest ‘Best of Other Countable’ results will be included in the Non-Countable results on his ranking breakdown.

    How long will ATP Challenger/ITF World Tennis Tour events after Tour resumption stay on the Rankings?
    ATP Challenger Tour/ITF World Tennis Tour events played after the Tour resumes will stay on the Rankings for 52 weeks.

    Why are ATP Challenger Tour/ITF World Tennis Tour events being added differently than Tour-level events?
    ATP Challenger Tour and ITF World Tennis Tour events are scheduled on a one-year basis and do not have consistent spots in the calendar. Therefore, all results from these events will be added to a player’s Rankings breakdown. However, results will only improve a player’s "Best 18" points total if better than a player’s lowest ‘Best of Other Countable’ result.
    https://www.atptour.com/en/news/fede...djustments-faq

    Okay, I think I misunderstood the challengers thing completely. Now I think that they don't drop off at all.

    I think the difference is that, with challengers, it's possible that you could have the same tournament on your ranking twice. The other difference is that if any challenger was rescheduled, it stays on your ranking for 52 weeks, even if the same challenger gets held in 2021 at an earlier date. That's different from the French Open, where anyone who does better in 2020 than 2019 will only get to keep their extra points for 7-8 months.

    So the main thing is that every challenger is an island. There's no tricks with defending titles, or when they'll be played in 2021. They're all unique events.

  13. #4903
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    omess's Avatar
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    Re: Talk about Rankings (TAR :))

    Quote Originally Posted by MeganFernandez View Post
    Will an event only count once? Someone can't count their 2019 and 2020 US Opens among their best 16 results, can they?
    Yes, the event will only count once . So only one USO on the ranking.


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