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Thoughts on the Election and the ElectionThread

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I voted for John McCain. It's not because I'm really inspired by the candidate. Obama is far more inspirational. I've pretty much never voted for a Democrat in my life even though I'm a registered independent. I'm from Massachusetts and never voted for Kerry or Kennedy. My last post in the election thread
pretty much spells out the philosophy I go by. Here's the part of it from post #3566

I'm not a fan of wealth spreading even though it will benefit someone like me. I don't think it's a good priciple for the country. When the handouts come to me, I will accept them even though I voted against them.
All of the employees in my workplace recently received a small bonus for outstanding customer service. It was nice. But it hurt to see those employees who don't provide good service and aren't team players receive the same bonus as more deserving employees. Not distinguishing the good apples from the bad apples absolutely sucks in my opinion. I think with the new socialist mechanism, the slackers will get rewarded and the go getters will be restrained. I hope I'm wrong.

There is a great chance that Obama will prove me wrong. I hope he does.

I wish that Mitt Romney was the man at this point, especially given the state of the economy. Obama is very intelligent, though. And he may turn out to be a great leader. We shall see. I'm bummed that Romney pandered to the Bible thumpers. He should have run as a centrist like he did when he ran for Gov of Massachusetts.

My family has very diverse political views. One of my sisters was a Nader supporter who's now all about Obama. My brother with whom I just had dinner is undecided still. He's a big shot lawyer and knows that McCain would be better for his wallet, but I think he prefers Obama. He, also, would have chosen Romney given the state of things.

I am disgusted constantly by the angry rants of the left. I totally understand about not liking Hannity and Limbaugh and company. But I think it's so hypocritical to throw out Olbermann (admmittedly, I've never watched Rachel Maddow)and co an think that they're any better. It's all the same BS spin. And I feel like this thread became the MSNBC election thread. We have so many people that I really like on this board. Unfortunately, many of them really seem to dislike and distrust Republicans just because they're Republican. They believe everything negative and believe nothing positive said and/or written about the right. They believe everything positive and believe nothing negative said and/or written about the left. I really felt that there was a huge left wing slant to this thread. All left wing gossip and innuendo was taken as gospel. And all right wing gossip and innuendo was simply unfounded, ridiculous smears. People making a huge deal about voter supression, but dismissing or excusing all things ACORN is tough to take.
I didn't like having an Obama as Messiah sandwich shoved down my throat. And the constant side dish of the activist/weirdo Andrew Sullivan didn't sit well with me either. McCain is not the devil as he was portrayed in this forum and on the left wing blogs. Maybe you don't want him as president, but gimme a break. Sarah Palin may be really unitelligent, but the smears about grandkids and affairs. Please!!!!!!!
There's something called the sensible center that I believe in. It would have been nice to have mostly objective, adult, rational dialogue. Instead it was Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah---Go Barack, Go Barack, Yay Barack! And McCain is Satan!!

I'm just bleeping sick of all the spin, gossip and exaggeration in this thread and on tv and in the papers.

Side Notes

Way to go Ted Stevens---Hope he rots away in a hole in Barrow.
Massachusetts has a great story going with State Senator Dianne Wilkerson. Evidently, bras are made for more than holding just boobs.

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  1. munchin's Avatar
    I liked the first half of your blog a lot. The Election thread misses you and is lesser for your absence. I was with you until "fruitcake." That's a little nasty. Is that the word the "sensible center" uses for people like me?
  2. dryrunguy's Avatar
    Jiggy, I'm glad you posted your views, and I'm sorry that your perspective has not been part of the dialogue in that thread. But I have to share a few thoughts.

    First, as soon as he said it, I posted that the "spread the wealth" quip was going to turn off a lot of people. And it has.

    Second, I've made a concerted effort in this election cycle to watch coverage from a variety of media outlets--from MSNBC to FOX to Focus on the Family. And I can say with absolute certainty that the left doesn't have a monopoly on angry rants. Nor does it have a monopoly on spin, gossip, and exaggeration. Nor does any outlet have a monopoly on the truth. It's just the nature of the beast, unfortunately. But I firmly believe that we, as citizens, also bear responsibility for seeking the truth for ourselves by putting what we hear under the microscope, evaluating our own inherent biases, and doing our own research to discover the truth for ourselves. Very few people, it seems, make such an effort. Most of us are content to limit ourselves to what reinforces our biases (only watching media that tell us what we want to hear, whether it's MSNBC or FOX or whatever). What does that accomplish? How much courage does that require? What do we gain if we don't allow our core beliefs to be challenged?

    Third, if you had stuck with the thread, you would know that several of us are fully aware that ACORN is, at some level, a corrupt organization, and it seems to start with the policies and quotas mandated by its funders.

    Fourth, voter suppression is real. The only thing we don't know is the extent. If you watch MSNBC it's potentially occurring in all of the swing states. If you watch FOX, it's only a problem in Ohio (where the Democratic Secretary of State is getting heat). It shouldn't be dismissed. Every allegation should be investigated to the fullest, regardless of the party allegedly perpetrating it. It's a slap to the face of democracy, a principle political conservatives hold dear. Regardless of who we support as individuals, I would think that we could all agree that having a state political party send applications for absentee ballots to voters registered in the other party with bogus return addresses on the application is both illegal and immoral. But this has happened in several states...

    Finally, I've said it before and I'll say it again... this "Messiah" business is highly offensive to me. It offends me politically. I have not been duped or brainwashed by a serving of fishes and loaves. More importantly, it's an affront to my faith. There is only one Messiah for me. I am asking, yet again, that this terminology not be used on this public forum because of its level of offense on multiple layers. This is about my fifth request on this point. But I guess my feelings on the matter are too unimportant.

    I've missed you (and others) in that thread, jiggy. I wish you could have stuck with it. And I'm sorry that the lack of restraint or fair-mindedness got too overbearing. You're right. Many liberals are every bit as close-minded as Bible thumpers or the worst of the Radical Right. I don't know why some of my fellow Obama supporters elect NOT to follow Barack's example--where he invites difference in perspective, solicits the consult of experts and then makes a decision based on evidence and advice.

    Last I checked, diversity of opinion was our nation's greatest strength, not our biggest weakness. But we spend far too much time talking and too little time listening for this to work the way it's supposed to.

    I'd wish you luck on Election Day, but... Well, you know.

    Again, thanks for speaking up. I'm really glad you did.
  3. Moose's Avatar
    I'd like to think I am just ever so slightly to the left of the sensible center. But this has been a really tough election cycle, no matter what your belief structure.

    I think a lot of people (not just here, but in every part of my universe) have had their core beliefs challenged in less than positive ways. And no matter what happens on Tuesday, I fear we continue to have a long way to go toward an effective national concensus.

    But, getting to the middle requires talking. And you did a great thing Mr. Jiggy by starting a dialogue here. I hope this kind of activity is going on on fourms, in coffeeshops, at soccer games, etc. all over the country, because this country's divided is growing. And that's not good.
  4. mrjiggyfly2's Avatar
    You are one of the bestest, most positive members in this forum. I wasn't and wouldn't call you a fruitcake. If I hadn't had a steady dose of the great Andrew Sullivan forced on me in the election thread, I probably wouldn't refer to him as a fruitcake. But that's the term that came to mind when thinking about that particular individual. It is not a group classification. I respect your opinion. And as such, I will edit the blog.
  5. shtexas's Avatar
    I don't think the analogy to your workplace fits. This is not what Obama is about at all. You have fallen into the trap of believing that lazy, unmotivated people are going to get free hand-outs or something. I believe Obama's plan is to give the middle class and lower class, who have lost the opportunity to get ahead, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, a chance to pull themselves out of the quicksand. Of course, there are a few (very small in my estimation) who try to take advantage of those kinds of systems and don't want to work (I have a cousin who comes to mind). But Obama's plans want to ensure that if you are born in the wrong school district or your family is beset by health problems and its costs, you have a chance to achieve and maybe be that go-getter you mention.
  6. mrjiggyfly2's Avatar

    You are as fact oriented, fair minded, and tolerant as they come. I beleieve that I may have told you that I wouldn't use Messiah/Savior. I apologize for that. Obama ran a good campaign and deserves to be commended. I totally understand why it's an insult on each level you stated. Admittedly, I hadn't thought about the personal faith part previously. Bad job by me. Sorry.
    I will try and be as fair as you've been going forward.
  7. mrjiggyfly2's Avatar
    I agree about each child deserving the best opportunity to succeed. At some point, individuals must make the most of opportunity. I hope you're right about the handout thing. We shall see.
  8. mrjiggyfly2's Avatar

    You are definitely the sensible center
  9. shtexas's Avatar
    I am choosing to ignore the generalizations made about the entirety of the thread and its inhabitants. Oops - guess I didn't ignore it.

    What hurt me most about McCain, and why I actually took the time to write a long letter to McCain, is I actually thought he was a solid alternative to Bush. A war hero, the straight talk express, a bit of a maverick (although that disappeared in the last four years, and we know that was for political purposes). I did however give him a passing look. But, the choice of Palin (too far right), and then all the stunts right afterward, left me feeling embarrassed that I ever bought into the maverick idea, etc. I know I probably never would have voted for him even if he had stayed the same because I disagreed with the old McCain 70% of the time. But, I had hope in that other 30%. But, his choices down the stretch pretty much wiped out all 30% and all of that hope.
  10. dryrunguy's Avatar
    No problem, jiggy.

    Shtexas, there's been nonstop confusion about Obama's tax plan. Obama has never promised a tax cut for 95% of Americans. He's promised a tax cut for 95% of American WORKERS. The McCain Campaign and their surrogates have intentionally mischaracterized this. In fact, some Obama surrogates have gotten it wrong--at least twice that I've seen. You can't cut zero. If you don't work, there's nothing to tax... and nothing to cut.

    On a side note, if I remember correctly, the last president who tackled the "handout" issue was Bill Clinton when he took on welfare reform. It took some cooperation with Republicans in Congress to make it happen, and there's still much debate as to whether it was good legislation.

    And if we're going to talk about handouts, how about the astounding tax breaks received by Exxon Mobil, which recorded a record $15 billion in profits during the last quarter... While all of us were paying $4/gallon for gas. Exxon Mobil got a handout, recorded record profits, and did nothing to pass any kind of savings on to consumers. Poor people aren't the only ones who get "handouts". But "handouts" to people who are already rich seem to be just fine with many people. I don't get it.
  11. suliso's Avatar
    That Exxon Mobil stuff is the biggest BS from Democrats this year. They didn't receive any special handouts - just the same tax breaks all other corporations got...
  12. dryrunguy's Avatar
    That is SO not the point, suliso. The errant theory is that wealth trickles down and high profits will ultimately yield savings for consumers. But that's a myth. The people at the top keep it for themselves. And we keep paying the same, or more, as they get richer.
  13. suliso's Avatar
    And if you tax them (global corporations) in such a way that their profits are minimal, what will be their incentive to not reduce employment in US to a minimum and/or invest anything in R&D?

    I happened to talk last week about this with a VP of a large pharma company and he said that they have long since abandoned any commercial production in USA (most other big companies have done that too). Reason? High tax rates... In USA they would have to pay 30% - only 9% in Singapore and 12.5% in Ireland. No surprise then that all production happens there...
  14. munchin's Avatar
    No harm done, jiggy. Weirdo's a better word for him anyway.
  15. Kirkus's Avatar
    My political leanings are pretty well known, so I don't want to comment on that here. But I do want to say that if you want to call anyone a "fruitcake", I like that you chose your personal blog to do it. If our members don't know it, although I think I've made it clear, many of the rules that apply to public forums don't apply to blog space. Plenty of "rule pushing" name calling has gone on in the Election thread -- and that's bothered me. But it looks to me like you changed the wording in this blog entry out of respect to Munchin... that's commendable. I probably wouldn't have done so.

    I agree that the election thread has read a lot like an Olbermann Special Comment. But I don't necessarily think that's because those on the left have been more aggressive with their opinion, they've just been more vocal. Until you stopped posting in the thread, I always looked forward to your posts (and the few times Darcy chimed in) because I knew it was going to go against the grain of the thread.

    I think the thread is left leaning mainly because left-leaning voices are the majority of those heard. That was pretty much the case from the beginning. I don't know if more tennis fans are left-leaning, or if all but a few of those who aren't, simply kept their thoughts to themselves.