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shtexas
12-12-2007, 07:40 PM
Tomorrow, the Mitchell report comes out. Supposedly 60-80 names named.

It would have never come to this had the commissioner's office and player's union not swept this under the rug for so long.

This is one time we can be proud of the powers that be and the players in tennis.

Moose
12-12-2007, 07:43 PM
Tomorrow, the Mitchell report comes out. Supposedly 60-80 names named.

It would have never come to this had the commissioner's office and player's union not swept this under the rug for so long.

This is one time we can be proud of the powers that be and the players in tennis.


Anyone else read Canseco's book? My guess is the Mitchell report will basically be a recitation of Canseco's allegations. I'm hoping it is a lot stronger, and that baseball takes it seriously, but I have my doubts.

Moose
12-13-2007, 08:32 AM
stuff is starting to leak. Clemens is named in the report. He's been dogged by rumors forever, so its not a huge surprise.

Moose
12-13-2007, 08:36 AM
A former New York Yankees strength trainer says information he provided to the George Mitchell investigation regarding supplying Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte with steroids is included in the Mitchell report scheduled to be released later today, a source close to the trainer told ESPN The Magazine's Shaun Assael.

Brian McNamee, who worked for the Yankees and as a personal trainer for Clemens and Pettitte, also told investigators that on at least one occasion, Clemens was in possession of steroids from another supplier, the source said.


The source said McNamee told investigators he supplied Clemens with steroids while Clemens was with the Yankees, and prior to Clemens joining the team.

Randy Hendricks, Clemens' agent, did not immediately return a message seeking comment, according to The Associated Press.

Also, The Bergen (N.J.) Record, citing a baseball industry official, says "several" prominent Yankees will be named in the Mitchell report. The paper said the source spoke to a third party who had seen the final report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129

dryrunguy
12-13-2007, 08:43 AM
This is gonna be ugly. This is why I hate being at the office instead of being glued to CNN at my home office. :(

Dry

tennisbrp
12-13-2007, 09:00 AM
As a Red Sox fan the surprises to me leaking now are Varitek and Damon(even though he is a Yankee).

Ti-Amie
12-13-2007, 09:24 AM
No surprise about Clemens for this Yankee fan. His face got so big it was ridiculous.

I'm surprised about Varitek but not Damon.

shtexas
12-13-2007, 09:35 AM
This is gonna be ugly. This is why I hate being at the office instead of being glued to CNN at my home office. :(

Dry

I'm at the office but streaming my local Ticket station. But, for the Texas Rangers, this may not be that big a story. Maybe some of our ex-players. But, the current group has so little talent, they can't be on anything. If they are, someone slipped them some bad product.

Moose
12-13-2007, 09:50 AM
Well now everyone can sleep better. Victor Conte has offered his assistance in coming up with solutions to the doping problem in baseball.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/12/13/balco.founder/

dryrunguy
12-13-2007, 09:58 AM
Well now everyone can sleep better. Victor Conte has offered his assistance in coming up with solutions to the doping problem in baseball.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/12/13/balco.founder/

Isn't that a little bit like Dick Cheney offering to lead an independent panel on government ethics?

Dry

GVGirl
12-13-2007, 10:02 AM
Wait for the official list to come out. My husband who works for part on NBC tells me that all of these papers- Bergen Record, Daily News etc....listed some people who are not actually on the list so NBC had to stop reporting it.

dryrunguy
12-13-2007, 10:10 AM
Wait for the official list to come out. My husband who works for part on NBC tells me that all of these papers- Bergen Record, Daily News etc....listed some people who are not actually on the list so NBC had to stop reporting it.

As long as Manny Ramirez makes the list, I don't care who's on it. :p

Dry

shtexas
12-13-2007, 10:15 AM
I read somewhere that those on the list may get suspended for 15 games (the same as the players suspended last week).

15 games is like three weeks. If that's the case, it would be further evidence they are not serious about cleaning up baseball.

shtexas
12-13-2007, 11:02 AM
It would kill me if the 2004 Texas Rangers (who ended only 3 games back of the Angels for the division title)were clean but the Angels (like Guerrero) were not.

Moose
12-13-2007, 11:07 AM
Jose Canseco showed up for the press conference, but they refused to let him in :)

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spjose1214,0,1123295.story

Moose
12-13-2007, 11:10 AM
Miguel Tejada? Surprised after that blockbuster trade yesterday.

mmmm8
12-13-2007, 11:33 AM
Here's a link to the report:
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/8160/5m/images.newsday.com/media/acrobat/2007-12/34253129.pdf

My favorite part is from page 378 on. They got the stuff by mail (like mail sent to the Dodgers' Stadium) and paid with personal checks. Love it.

oploskoffie
12-13-2007, 11:37 AM
Here's a link to the report:
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/8160/5m/images.newsday.com/media/acrobat/2007-12/34253129.pdf

My favorite part is from page 378 on. They got the stuff by mail (like mail sent to the Dodgers' Stadium) and paid with personal checks. Love it.

I don't know squat about baseball, but I'll read this with great interest. Thx! :)

shtexas
12-13-2007, 11:40 AM
I notice most of the discussion on baseball message boards is fighting between Yankees and Red Sox fans pointing the finger at the other team. :cheesy:

Moose
12-13-2007, 11:43 AM
Looks like Lenny Dykstra is the only Phillies player named,, at least so far. Funny thing is, everyone here in Philly knew Dykstra juiced. It was joked about in the papers.

GVGirl
12-13-2007, 11:44 AM
I notice most of the discussion on baseball message boards is fighting between Yankees and Red Sox fans pointing the finger at the other team. :cheesy:

Yankees and Red Sox fans are always fighting, it doesn't matter what's going on. Those mlb boards get crazy.:shocked:

As a Yankees fan I have tons of stories that I won't get into.

bea26
12-13-2007, 11:47 AM
Yankees and Red Sox fans are always fighting, it doesn't matter what's going on. Those mlb boards get crazy.:shocked:

As a Yankees fan I have tons of stories that I won't get into.

Figures you're a Yankees fans. Juicer!

;)

dryrunguy
12-13-2007, 11:53 AM
Reading the report now...

They say that you know pasta is fully cooked if it sticks to the wall... The Players Association now fully understands what it's like to be a noodle.

Dry

GVGirl
12-13-2007, 11:53 AM
Figures you're a Yankees fans. Juicer!

;)

Let's not get started as some of those "juciers" came from Boston.;)

So Clemens- HOF or not?

In some ways I wish that this stuff had come out a year ago so Hank Aaron could have still kept the HR record.

tennisbrp
12-13-2007, 11:56 AM
So...now that the real report is out neither Damon nor Varitek is on it so I guess my shock was valid....

bea26
12-13-2007, 11:57 AM
So...now that the real report is out neither Damon nor Varitek is on it so I guess my shock was valid....

Whew! Not my Varitek...

tennisbrp
12-13-2007, 12:05 PM
Whew! Not my Varitek...


He got those legs and that butt with natural weight training methods :)

Ti-Amie
12-13-2007, 01:16 PM
From ESPN



According to the Mitchell Commission report, here are players mentioned and how they are linked to performance enhancing substances:

Information Learned During this Investigation Concerning BALCO and Major League Baseball (8 players/ 3 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "I requested interviews of all the major league players who had been publicly implicated in the BALCO case." Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball (53 players/ 18 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "The following discussion is organized in roughly chronological order. Records do not exist to document every transaction described by witnesses. [Kirk] Radomski stated that, with one exception noted below, the payments he received from professional baseball players were for performance enhancing substances, as opposed to personal training or other services, and this assertion was confirmed by those players who agreed to speak with us about their dealings with him."
Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Gregg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagné
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Exavier "Nook" Logan
Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball (16 players, 8 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "Since the initial news reports of the raid by New York and Florida law enforcement officials on Signature Pharmacy and several rejuvenation centers, the names of several current and former major league players have appeared in the media as alleged purchasers of performance enhancing substances through these operations. These include:"

Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
David Bell
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646

Moose
12-13-2007, 01:17 PM
seeig David Justice's name surprised me a little. I wonder if Halle knew?

Kirkus
12-13-2007, 01:18 PM
I read somewhere that those on the list may get suspended for 15 games (the same as the players suspended last week).

15 games is like three weeks. If that's the case, it would be further evidence they are not serious about cleaning up baseball.

Not even close, shtexas. Here's a quote for you:


"The commissioner should give the players and everyone else the chance to make a fresh start," Mitchell said. "That's what baseball needs."

My paraphrase: "Sure. They break the rules. But hey, they're baseball players and we love our baseball! So, in addition to paying them millions of dollars each and every year (and strike when they don't think it's enough money), we're going to look the other way instead of punishing them."

Excuse my language but this is a crock of crap. If they get off scott-free, it'll be another black mark on American culture.

This is the definition of "permissiveness".

Moose
12-13-2007, 01:21 PM
My paraphrase: "Sure. They break the rules. But hey, they're baseball players and we love our baseball! So, in addition to paying them millions of dollars each and every year (and strike when they don't think it's enough money), we're going to look the other way instead of punishing them."

Excuse my language but this is a crock of crap. If they get off scott-free, it'll be another black mark on American culture.

This is the definition of "permissiveness".

Don't forget, Kirkus...the owners are in the 4th consecutive year of skyrocketing attendance at parks across the country. Baseball is at its healthiest, and most profitable, since (at leasT) before the strike some years back (when many suggest the owners began overlooking steroid abuse, so that people would come watch sluggers hit a lot of home runs).

The owners are every bit as responsible for the culture of corruption that has ensnared MLB. I hope they rot in hell right alongside the players that inspire kids to think they have to juice to succeed.

GVGirl
12-13-2007, 01:23 PM
Don't forget, Kirkus...the owners are in the 4th consecutive year of skyrocketing attendance at parks across the country. Baseball is at its healthiest, and most profitable, since (at leasT) before the strike some years back (when many suggest the owners began overlooking steroid abuse, so that people would come watch sluggers hit a lot of home runs).

The owners are every bit as responsible for the culture of corruption that has ensnared MLB. I hope they rot in hell right alongside the players that inspire kids to think they have to juice to succeed.

Heck there is an "owner" as the basball commish. That says it all.

dryrunguy
12-13-2007, 01:28 PM
This seems like an appropriate time to plug the work my company did for the National Institute on Drug Abuse around prevention of steroid use. :) I know it's shameless, but we're very proud of it and won some industry awards.

http://www.steroidabuse.gov/

Dry

shtexas
12-13-2007, 01:29 PM
Not even close, shtexas. Here's a quote for you:



My paraphrase: "Sure. They break the rules. But hey, they're baseball players and we love our baseball! So, in addition to paying them millions of dollars each and every year (and strike when they don't think it's enough money), we're going to look the other way instead of punishing them."

Excuse my language but this is a crock of crap. If they get off scott-free, it'll be another black mark on American culture.

This is the definition of "permissiveness".

Even worse than a minor suspension. Do nothing! :(

The shame is baseball is a great game. I love it for many of the same reasons I love tennis. There are a lot of mental elements to baseball, and also, like tennis, time doesn't expire - you have to finish off your opponent no matter how far ahead you are.

The tennis establishment is not perfect, but at least they have not taken things lightly on the drug front.

Ti-Amie
12-13-2007, 01:30 PM
I scanned the report while on a conf cl and was amazed at how this one guy set himself up and kept all the cancelled checks.

Jack
12-13-2007, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bea26 http://www.talkabouttennis.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.talkabouttennis.com/forum/showthread.php?p=191653#post191653)
Whew! Not my Varitek...



He got those legs and that butt with natural weight training methods :)

I can count on one hand the number of players who would shock me if they used, and Varitek is one of them. He was a big guy back in high school and college - weighed 205 when he graduated high school and 210 today. And he's a player more accomplished for his baseball brain than any outstanding physical gifts. One of the few that I would confidently say "no way".

tennisbrp
12-13-2007, 02:11 PM
I can count on one hand the number of players who would shock me if they used, and Varitek is one of them. He was a big guy back in high school and college - weighed 205 when he graduated high school and 210 today. And he's a player more accomplished for his baseball brain than any outstanding physical gifts. One of the few that I would confidently say "no way".


I was very sincere in my sentence and not doubting him either as evidenced by my earlier posts......

Jack
12-13-2007, 02:23 PM
I was very sincere in my sentence and not doubting him either as evidenced by my earlier posts......

Didn't mean to imply you thought otherwise. Just identifying that I'd be shocked if he was implicated, as was suggested earlier in the thread.

Honestly, (sadly), there was no one listed that really surprised me.

tennisbrp
12-13-2007, 02:26 PM
Didn't mean to imply you thought otherwise. Just identifying that I'd be shocked if he was implicated, as was suggested earlier in the thread.

Honestly, (sadly), there was no one listed that really surprised me.


very true

jsd123789456
12-13-2007, 02:39 PM
In a word...WHAMMY!!!

aside from the fact that our new shortstop, miguel tejada, was named. whoops.

shtexas
12-14-2007, 11:01 AM
I was ticked at the Dallas (Cowboys) Morning News this morning. They hate baseball, so they were all too quick to point out (with a chart in two separate sections no less) that 18 Rangers have been fingered. What they don't point out, of course, is very few of those were Rangers for more than 1/2 a season or a season, and some that were with us longer have been gone for a very long time (Kevin Brown who left in '94!)

JTContinental
12-14-2007, 11:24 AM
No current Mariners were listed--maybe that's why none of them can hit home runs.

I was really surprised that former M Bret Boone wasn't on the list. He looked pretty juiced up to me.

shtexas
12-14-2007, 11:29 AM
I don't think any current Rangers were on the list either. The most recent was Gary Matthews Jr., who we knew about before the report.

munchin
12-14-2007, 11:47 AM
No current Mariners were listed--maybe that's why none of them can hit home runs.

I was really surprised that former M Bret Boone wasn't on the list. He looked pretty juiced up to me.


I was very pleased about that. Seattle: Home of the Moral Victory.

The main thing I remember about Bret was that he didn't seem to believe in underwear and that made for good television.

Kirkus
12-14-2007, 11:48 AM
Yeah, that's really silly to spotlight specific teams.

This isn't a team issue, it's an individual issue.

JTContinental
12-14-2007, 11:49 AM
I was very pleased about that. Seattle: Home of the Moral Victory.

The main thing I remember about Bret was that he didn't seem to believe in underwear and that made for good television.

Yes, sitting behind homeplate was also a highlight of his time here.

mmmm8
12-14-2007, 12:09 PM
I was very pleased about that. Seattle: Home of the Moral Victory.

The main thing I remember about Bret was that he didn't seem to believe in underwear and that made for good television.

Or Seattle players just use a different guy as supplier ... :rolleyes:

JTContinental
12-14-2007, 12:28 PM
Or Seattle players just use a different guy as supplier ... :rolleyes:

A couple of them got tagged over the last couple of years. And I'm pretty sure Boonie was using. He was a mediocre player who all of the sudden got really good for a couple of years. Then they imposed tougher steroid penalties, and suddenly he sucked again.

Jack
01-03-2008, 10:07 PM
Newsflash: The only thing Rog injects in his ass is vitamins and painkillers. After all, why take the convenient pill form.

NEW YORK (AP) -- Roger Clemens (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/3340/;_ylt=AtmcDYVWH4uQgQaCffXH5iSpu7YF) said former trainer Brian McNamee injected him with the painkiller lidocaine and the vitamin B-12 -- not any performance-enhancing drugs.
In the first excerpts released from the pitcher's interview with CBS's "60 Minutes," which is to be broadcast Sunday night, Clemens maintained the denials he has issued since McNamee implicated him in the Mitchell report on doping in baseball, which was released Dec. 13.



http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AoQp8VX8x94Lz8MKsIzzQbwRvLYF?slug=ap-steroids-clemens&prov=ap&type=lgns

mmmm8
01-03-2008, 10:11 PM
Newsflash: The only thing Rog injects in his ass is vitamins and painkillers.After all, why take the convenient pill form.


I don't know much about the Clemens situation, but to be fair.

Lidocaine is generally injected when a course is given, not sure it even comes in pill or other forms.

And when I was a kid, I had to go through several courses of B-12 and other vitamins by injection because I had a deficiency and it was affecting my energy level. It's more effective that way because otherwise your body can't process all the vitamins

Jack
01-03-2008, 10:15 PM
I don't know much about the Clemens situation, but to be fair.

Lidocaine is generally injected when a course is given, not sure it even comes in pill or other forms.

And when I was a kid, I had to go through several courses of B-12 and other vitamins by injection because I had a deficiency and it was affecting my energy level. It's more effective that way because otherwise your body can't process all the vitamins

I was just being a wiseguy. It isn't unusual that athletes would administer them through injections; I just find it amusing that the general public can chat about what Roger Clemens sticks in his rear end. :)

nelslus
01-03-2008, 10:16 PM
I don't know much about the Clemens situation, but to be fair.

Lidocaine is generally injected when a course is given, not sure it even comes in pill or other forms.

And when I was a kid, I had to go through several courses of B-12 and other vitamins by injection because I had a deficiency and it was affecting my energy level. It's more effective that way because otherwise your body can't process all the vitamins

If THIS is the excuse that you wish to present to us for your propensity for frequently having sharp, pointy things thrust into your buttocks, my sweet, so be it. :cheesy:

mmmm8
01-03-2008, 10:19 PM
If THIS is the excuse that you wish to present to us for your propensity for frequently having sharp, pointy things thrust into your buttocks, my sweet, so be it. :cheesy:


Hey, I told you that Robrildo catalogue is NOT MINE!



I was just being a wiseguy. It isn't unusual that athletes would administer them through injections; I just find it amusing that the general public can chat about what Roger Clemens sticks in his rear end. :)

And now nelslus they can chat about me too, apparently :(

Jack
01-03-2008, 10:19 PM
If THIS is the excuse that you wish to present to us for your propensity for frequently having sharp, pointy things thrust into your buttocks, my sweet, so be it. :cheesy:

Yours is sharp and pointy? :yikey: you may want to consult a physician...

nelslus
01-03-2008, 10:25 PM
Yours is sharp and pointy? :yikey: you may want to consult a physician...

Trust me, this all twas not about BPDN's glorious manhood. And, as much as the sexual heat is palpable to all of us here in TAT-land between me and mmmm8 (sorry 'bout that, bea)- we have somehow managed to resist each other so far.....

P.S. Jack- please don't project. 'Cause, trust me- you WILL get used to Virginia's sharp and pointy thing eventually (not that this makes you gay or anything).....

mmmm8
01-03-2008, 10:30 PM
Trust me, this all twas not about BPDN's glorious manhood. And, as much as the sexual heat is palpable to all of us here in TAT-land between me and mmmm8 (sorry 'bout that, bea)- we have somehow managed to resist each other so far.....

P.S. Jack- please don't project. 'Cause, trust me- you WILL get used to Virginia's sharp and pointy thing eventually (not that this makes you gay or anything).....

It's ok, remember, his never developed. Besides, Bea is saving himself for Tommy Haas.

However, I'm allergic to some materials, and since I'm not sure what material the "baby nelslus" toy is made of, I can't agree to touching anything that was, umm, using it. So, it's not meant to be.

nelslus
01-03-2008, 10:40 PM
It's ok, remember, his never developed. Besides, Bea is saving himself for Tommy Haas.

However, I'm allergic to some materials, and since I'm not sure what material the "baby nelslus" toy is made of, I can't agree to touching anything that was, umm, using it. So, it's not meant to be.

Just as well. After all, once one has sampled BPDN, the enchantment of sharp and pointy thing thrust into one's buttocks just never holds the same thrill ever again.

Jack
01-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Trust me, this all twas not about BPDN's glorious manhood. And, as much as the sexual heat is palpable to all of us here in TAT-land between me and mmmm8 (sorry 'bout that, bea)- we have somehow managed to resist each other so far.....

P.S. Jack- please don't project. 'Cause, trust me- you WILL get used to Virginia's sharp and pointy thing eventually (not that this makes you gay or anything).....

Sharp and pointy?? I would have guessed Ginny was as smooth as a baby doll, but I'll take your word for it.


edited to add: I bet Virgina Wade would never have thought she'd be discussed in a thread about roids in MLB...

nelslus
01-03-2008, 11:29 PM
Sharp and pointy?? I would have guessed Ginny was as smooth as a baby doll, but I'll take your word for it.

OH, forget my word for it, I'm sure that you'll get the POINT any day now....


edited to add: I bet Virginia Wade would never have thought she'd be discussed in a thread about roids in MLB...

Sue Barker is now just SEETHING with jealousy.....