View Full Version : Master's Cup in Houston

10-25-2004, 10:06 AM
I wonder how often it happens that a player such as Gaudio gets a slot into the Master's Cup despite not being that highly ranked overall.

Gaudio gets in because he won a Major ... and I think a lower ranked player has made it in via the Championship route more than a few times ... Goran, when he won Wimby sticks out in my memory.

10-25-2004, 10:19 AM

Here's an article stating that 4 players (Federer, Roddick, Hewitt, and Gaudio) are locked into one of the 9 spots available for the year end Master's Cup.

They say that there are 6 players (Moya, Coria, Safin, Henman, Agassi, and Nalbandian) contending for the last remaining 4 spots.....however aren't there 5 remaining spots open? There are a total of 9 slots of players who play in the Master's Cup year end, aren't there? The 10th player in the race is used as an alternate.

I wonder how often it happens that a player such as Gaudio gets a slot into the Master's Cup despite not being that highly ranked overall.

Only 8 players play in the Master's Cup unless one of the players gets injured during the tournament; then an alternate may play.

Gaudio isn't really ranked that low. He's #9 in the race right now and #9 in the entry system, but the rules call for the 8th place to be given to a slam winner who didn't make the last 8.

Albert Costa was ranked #9 when he played as a slam winner not making the top 8 in 2002. Goran Ivanisevic was ranked #13 when he played in 2001.

Even though the article doesn't mention it, J. Johansson may still have a very long shot at it but it would require him to win this week and next and the rest of them to lose early.

10-25-2004, 11:35 AM
And now they are saying this is the last year that the Master's Cup will be in Houston and next year it goes some where else. What determines where this event is held?

Negotiations between the ATP and the potential venues.

After this year I think it returns to Shanghai.

10-25-2004, 06:50 PM
Even though the article doesn't mention it, J. Johansson may still have a very long shot at it but it would require him to win this week and next and the rest of them to lose early.

He's out of it, actually, although he's got a shot at being alternate. Even if he won Stockholm (40 pts - his best 5th of 8) and Bercy (100 pts), he'd not have enough to get into 7th position, because Henman, who holds that place, already has 447 points.

Safin can probably secure his place this week if he does well in St Petersburg (must reach final). Henman could manage it too by winning Basel. Agassi and Nalbandian will both have to post really good results in their last two tournaments to have a shot, and hope that Henman doesn't. Coria and Moya could both lose out and not qualify, but it's unlikely.

10-26-2004, 12:48 AM
He's out of it, actually, although he's got a shot at being alternate. Even if he won Stockholm (40 pts - his best 5th of 8) and Bercy (100 pts), he'd not have enough to get into 7th position, because Henman, who holds that place, already has 447 points.

Safin can probably secure his place this week if he does well in St Petersburg (must reach final). Henman could manage it too by winning Basel. Agassi and Nalbandian will both have to post really good results in their last two tournaments to have a shot, and hope that Henman doesn't. Coria and Moya could both lose out and not qualify, but it's unlikely.

I should have qualified that with "if Coria doesn't play."

Coria is still unsure whether he can play at Houston or not, according to his web site.

Still, it's not much of a chance.

10-26-2004, 02:24 AM
Oh, yes, he certainly does have a chance if Coria doesn't play. Or Moya. Or, as it now seems, Federer :(

It's possible even Tommy Robredo might get in at this rate!

10-31-2004, 06:52 PM
Agassi and Nalbandian both pulled out of Paris due to injuries. So Coria, Safin and Henman all qualify.

Just when it was promising to be an interesting week...

11-01-2004, 10:02 PM
8) If the good Safin shows up, he has a real shot. And there's a little guy from Adelaide who might have something to say about it, too.

11-07-2004, 11:39 PM
I see no one voted on Safin to win. He's been playing so well at the end of the season now. Do you guys think he's done now.....or will he continue his streak?

I think he does better when he's flying under the radar ... like he's been doing lately.

But when the pressure is on, big time tourneys, big time moments ... I don't think his mind can hold up. Meltdown city!

11-08-2004, 11:30 PM
I thought maybe you knew someone with TTC. Anyway there are some feature this month one with Nalbandian and one with Nadal.

One thing I was wondering about with TMC is the injury status of Coria and Moya. I read on another board that they are still really not ready to play or should not play. Still we haven't heard anything about them backing out.

When is the last time we saw Coria play though?

In July in Canada.

11-11-2004, 05:52 AM
TMC groups have been designated.

Group A: Federer, Hewitt, Moya, Gaudio

Group B: Roddick, Henman, Coria, Safin

What do you think of these draws?

Yeah, Moose posted the Groups in the Contests forum. I think Gaudio is going to get absolutely worked. Other than that, I'm looking forward to some great T! Just wondering how healthy Coria is ...

11-15-2004, 01:38 AM
I see they got Andy into the suit but not the shoes. 8)

11-15-2004, 04:59 AM
Federer and Gaudio only managed to finish 1 game before there was a rain delay. :P

Another good argument for an indoor venue for the YEC.

11-15-2004, 06:59 AM
TTC was supposed to show this match but they aren't. They had a two hour block in the schedule for TMC but instead they are showing reruns of old shows.

let me get this straight ... no other network is showing the TMC today, and TTC doesn't pick it up

TTC sounds like the tennis version of ESPNClassics ... I can't get the channel, so I don't really know ... but from what I've heard the network sounds pretty sad.

How does TTC expect Directv or anyone else to add them when they obviously offer sub-par programming?

11-15-2004, 07:07 AM
Now I can breath again.

For future live Fedtennis broadcasts, I suggest a brown paper bad

You could use it to either ...

breathe into

or house the alcohol


11-16-2004, 07:46 AM
You're welcome, PJVA!!!

They showed Mrs. Bush Senior watching the match... she looked like she was really into it.

As for TV coverage... from our friends at Tennis Warehouse: (times are eastern.)

Nov 16 12:00am-2:00am Tennis Masters Cup Houston ESPN2
Nov 16 2:00pm-4:00pm Tennis Masters Cup Houston ESPN
Nov 16 11:00pm-1:00am Tennis Masters Cup Houston ESPN2
Nov 17 2:00pm-4:00pm Tennis Masters Cup Houston ESPN
Nov 17 10:00pm-12:00am Tennis Masters Cup Houston ESPN2
Nov 18 11:30pm-1:30am Tennis Masters Cup Houston ESPN2

11-16-2004, 08:18 AM
Dammit! Cant they put them on earlier?! Its on too late! I dont get to see all of these matches when theyre on at 11 or 12 at night!

In all fairness bets, ESPN must wait until all the poker tournaments have finished :P

But I'm with you on these late starts ... I'm usually stackin Zs by 10 Mountain. And whenever I stay up to watch, my guy or gal usually ends up losing ... then I toss and turn until dawn!

11-16-2004, 03:18 PM
You guys have to tape these matches if you can.

I just don't understand why they don't show the matches live though. Especially I'd think they show their Roddick matches live.

Yeah, me too. Was Kafelnikov on the poker?

I was happy Roddick won even though I suspect you weren't.

I'd love Coria to do well in the YEC but I can't see it.

11-17-2004, 10:26 AM
looks like the day is pretty much a wash out. No chance for Lleyton to avenge the embarassment at the US. No chance for Moya to show if he is healthy. No chance for Gaudio to win even one set in this championship.

Guess there is gonna be a lot of play tomorrow.

11-17-2004, 10:27 AM
Not much to talk about today. Just the rain. :-[

11-17-2004, 10:27 AM
Was looking forward to seein Fed tonight, but it doesn't look good according to the weather channel.

Sorry PJ :(

11-17-2004, 10:29 AM
that was kinda strange

the three of us posted at almost exactly the same time ::)

11-17-2004, 10:12 PM
Geez, weird ... but you never know with ESPN's coverage of tennis.

Maybe they thought that since Gaudio is from South AMERICA, that more AMERICANS would be interested in watching him play!

11-18-2004, 07:06 AM
i want Henman to win and he still has a chance at the title, right? Im pretty sure he does.

Safin tomorrow meets Tim Henman , with the winner to join Roddick, Roger Federer and one other player in the semifinals. Henman put himself back in the hunt for a semifinal spot following a convincing 6-2, 6-2 win against Guillermo Coria on Thursday.


11-18-2004, 07:30 AM

just stop smiling like that please :P

11-18-2004, 09:59 AM
Bets.....you are so generous and kind. I'd never want anyone else to win but my Roger.

I like Tim too and it would be nice for him to win something great.....just not this tourney, because my Roger really wants it, and he's such a nice guy too. He really hasn't even gotten the notice he deserves in the US yet....even after winning all that he has this year.

What about having Tim win tourneys that Roger is not in next year?

Do you think Tim looked thinner than usual?

Good God ... I just made a big mess on the keyboard!

11-18-2004, 11:33 PM
The commentators were saying it could have been that he didn't feel as awake and into the match because he was already through to the semis and didn't need the win. I don't know because if Hewitt beats Gaudio then he'd be 2-0 and basically if Roger hadn't won there would have been 3 guys with 2-0 scores. It could have been a matter of sets or games that would decide....so that would be cutting it close, unless I am missing something.

It would have been 3 guys with 2-1 scores.

If Moya had won over Federer, he and Federer would have been the semifinalists even if Hewitt wins over Gaudio in straight sets since the set win-loss records would have been: Federer 4-2 or 5-2; Moya 5-2 or 5-3; Hewitt 4-3.

If Hewitt loses to Gaudio, he will be out since the set win-loss records will be: Hewitt 2-5, Moya 4-4.

So it's a must win match for Hewitt today.

11-18-2004, 11:38 PM
Seems to me fro mwhat I saw that Moya blew that match big time...opportunity upon opportunity, and he could not capitalize.

Should make things intersting for a possible Safin/Federer semi, since right now Safin is playing far better than Moya, but also could lose his cool, as he did against Roddick.

11-19-2004, 04:55 AM
I think the winner of the Safin/Henman match will be the last semifinalist to join Fed,Rod and Hewitt. And I believe they play tonight.

Caught the end of Hewitt/Gaudio and they were talking about a Gaudio tank job. I haven't liked that guy ever since Coria gave him the French!

11-19-2004, 05:08 AM
I think the Coria/Rod match can still have a bearing upon seeding for the semis

or do they keep their original seeds?

race ya to the site for the answer Bets! :P

11-19-2004, 05:12 AM
Yup that's it ... winner of each group plays the runner-up of the other group. So Rod is playing to avoid hitting Fed in the semis.

11-19-2004, 05:15 AM
HA HA I won :P

Man Roddick is just a tie-break winning machine isn't he?! That serve + being so used to playin em = 7-6 for Roddick!

11-19-2004, 06:55 AM
I don't think the score matters ... just win baby!

The weird thing is that I'd rather see Tim win, but that would be rooting against my contest predictions ::)

I never know whether to play these contests with my head or my heart!

11-19-2004, 11:52 AM
Today they were saying that Gaudio tanked his match with Hewitt. I wonder why he would do that?

Being a punk might have something to do with it

I really wondered if Roddick was being easy on him just to put himself in a tie breaker for practice


11-19-2004, 10:38 PM
You think Gaudio is a punk, why?

Very irrational dislike for him. He's always just rubbed me the wrong way ... don't like the look of his tennis, and he reminds me of a guy in the juniors with whom I couldn't stand to be in the same room! Like I said, irrational. But then the way Coria just handed him the French Open crown. That match disgusted me beyond description. Whenever I think of Gaudio as French Open champion, makes me physically sick.

Now for some rational explanation ... for any player to tank in a professional match, where people have paid a lot of money to see them play, that is unconscionable. I lose respect for those players on so many different levels. Safin has tanked on many occasions. As talented as the guy is, he's a big baby with a feeble mind.

Every time one of these millionaire babies "tanks" they hurt the sport. They turn people off to tennis and they're just being selfish little jackass PUNKS!!!

11-20-2004, 06:18 AM
Bets are you saying the TB went 20-18? WOW!

and ESPN is just outdoing themselves this time ... The Roddick match is on now and that finished hours ago!

I want to strangle someone!

Hand me a stuffed animal will ya :P

11-20-2004, 06:36 AM
Very surprised to see Roddick get worked like that. I coudn't watch because it was OSU vs. Michigan day (insert the Buckeye victory happy danse), but Roddick must have been a bit off to lose like that.

And look now! ESPN is showing Safin/Henman from YESTERDAY! I'm starting to think that the Execs at ESPN HATE tennis, and only buy the rights to these events so that they can screw them up in the worst way possible, so as to squash the sport in this country!

just a theory of mine

what, are they going to show the Fed/Safin match some time NEXT WEEK?!!! Lord help us tennis fans in the states ... I'm going to watch Auburn/Alabama LIVE!

11-20-2004, 01:03 PM
No offense to Roger but his demeanor on the court seems a little different. Hes making more mistakes and shows a little more emotion, usually anger, I think its because hes tired and has had a long year plus they gave him the late matches he is also playing against the best players in the world. Lets hope Lleyton takes advantage of how tired Roger seems. But then that may not do anything.

Oops, I think you're parting ways with PJVA now.

11-20-2004, 03:02 PM
I know at least one TAT poster who's rooting for Federer ;)

If Hewitt beats Federer tomorrow, it's short eating time for Sebastian. ;D

11-20-2004, 05:26 PM
No worries, not worried at all ... not one bit, nope not me ...

*leaves to weed out underwear drawer*

11-20-2004, 11:38 PM
Is anyone else getting annoyed by the Lacoste commercial? I hate that commercial!

I love that commercial Bets, and I think Arnaud is cute. I love the song too.

Haha Sebastien. I'll get back to you later :-[

11-21-2004, 06:49 AM
I was just realizing though that if they did go with the option to split the title and ranking points for the TMC that that would probably let Hewitt over take Roddick.


638 +
40 (RR wins)
40 (SF win)
25 (Final points if they're split)
= 743 points


671 +
60 (RR wins)
= 731 points

I say we play this thing out ;)

11-21-2004, 07:38 AM
Following the women's basketball game on ESPN2 -- instead of the World Series of Poker (which isn't a frickin' sport in the first place). That should make Bets happy!!

11-21-2004, 08:13 AM
Yes, ESPN2 is airing it now.

Watch (or should I say WASH) those shorts Sebastien ;D Good luck to Roger.

11-21-2004, 10:07 AM
What the hey is going on?!!!

I'm out hangin lights ... come in, OK they're gonna play the big match, OK, let's play the big match, let's all watch the big match ...

then another rerun?!!! ... is it RAINING AGAIN?!!!

did I arrange my undies FOR NOTHIN?!!!

11-21-2004, 10:29 AM
no worries mate ...

Fed knows Lleyton can't hurt him ...

and do you think I'd make a short munching bet if I was not absolutely confident in my rightness?!!! Though, I will say that Hewitt is actually making me think about getting up to really take a look at those undies :o

on second thought no ... Seb is always right ;)

11-21-2004, 10:42 AM

down a break in the second now

Lleyton is not the man to challenge Fed

it's all he can do to make this match somewhat competitive

Lleyton lacks the weapons to beat a guy like Fed

but he can beat everyone else and that's pretty damn great!

11-21-2004, 10:50 AM
Congratulations Roger. You play smooth as ice.

Hey Seberito - no shorts eating for you ;D

11-21-2004, 11:02 AM
... honestly ... was sweatin that one

the Hewitt victory over Roddick was very surprising to me ... kudos to Lleyton

but Lleyton has nothing on Fed, you can see it in their eyes. Lleyton is just trying to make it look good. Fed is in a comfort zone ... knows there's nothing to worry about, even when he got that string of bad calls early in the second.

now I'm starting to worry about the other bet ... Fed seems so great, and nobody around to challenge him ... could he really win a Grand Slam?

naaaahhhhh, the FO will do him in ... and if he ever wins it ... the pressure will stack up against him

11-22-2004, 05:36 AM
Sebs you do know he beat Coria in Hamburg in the finals earlier this year. Thats a clay tourney and Coria is a claycourter. But i hope Rafa wins that one. I wouldnt be to mad if he didnt and Fed did. or tim. Tim had an amazing run at the French last year so maybe?

I think Fed will win the FO once, possibly twice ... but he'll probably win it the year that he drops the ball at the AO ;)

11-22-2004, 11:16 AM
Still I wonder how this compares to what basketball stars make?

No comparison ...

Top 25 basketball salaries http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2003-04

Top 25 football http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2003

Baseball http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2004

11-23-2004, 12:43 AM
How did Pete earn more in 1997 than Roger did this year? Roger has won more tournaments than Pete this year than Pete ever did any year.

Sampras only won 8 titles in 1997 and only 2 grand slams, but he won a tournament that is gone, the Grand Slam Cup, and that prize money was $2,000,000, more than he won for both his slams. He also won the Singles Championships and 2 Masters Series tournaments.

11-23-2004, 01:29 AM
I don't get it at all. A big deal is made that Federer earned about 6 mil in one year....but look at how hard he had to work for that.......and he's probably not going to earn that much every year. The other sports pay at least twice that.

I have been thinking about this aspect for a while. That tennis is a more specialized high skill sport that puts all the outcome on one's guys shoulders. In a team sport half the time a guy can just be running up and down the field a little ....or just standing around with a glove and never even touch a ball the whole game.

In football, basketball or baseball it's not necessary to have devoted yourself to the sport from about the age of 5 or 6 is it? No...they just have to be the right size and have coordination. I think tennis players have to sacrifice a lot more to make it to the top.

It just makes me a little mad to see what a big deal is made of those other sports. I don't understand how Americans don't find tennis as interesting or more so. And don't say they would if an American was at the top....because most still wouldn't care about tennis.

I agree with most of what you're saying ... but it's just economics. The big three sports garner much more interest than tennis here in the states, get the big TV contracts, and that's where the really big money pours in.

I know that many people find tennis boring, though how do you explain golf. That sport seems to be on a major network nearly every weekend. Who is watching it? I've tried playing golf and I find the sport boring. I watch the Masters on Sunday and that's about all I can bear.

I'd be interested in knowing the salaries for top soccer stars in other countries.

11-23-2004, 01:48 AM
That's interesting. What was the Grand Slam Cup and where was it played? Was that similar to the TMC?

The Grand Slam Cup

The Grand Slam Cup in Munich, Germany is a tournament created by the ITF (International Tennis Federation). The Grand Slam Cup is not an ATP Tour event. No ranking points are awarded with this event, but the match results do count toward the ATP head-to-head records (this is a change from previous policy), and the Grand Slam Cup is now considered as an official career title.
Eligibility for the Grand Slam Cup is determined by a player's results from the four Grand Slam events in that calendar year. The players are awarded a certain number of points depending on how far they advance in each event. The top 16 with the highest number of total points qualify.

Seedings for this event is determined by the GS points, NOT the usual rankings. The first two rounds of the Grand Slam Cup are best of three sets. The semi and final are best of five sets. If a match reaches the maximum set, that set has to be won by game advantage. That is, there is no tie break in the 3rd set of best-of-three matches nor the 5th set of best-of-five matches.

Grand Slam Cup points from GS events:
winner: 600
finalist: 450
semi finalist: 300
quarter finalist: 150
round of 16: 75
third round: 40
second round: 20
first round: 2


The draw in 1997 was:

Sampras (1)
Bjorkman (8)
Rusedski (4)
Bruguera (5)
Pioline (6)
Kuerten (3)
Rios (7)
Rafter (2)

Sampras beat Rafter in the final.

It was played in Munich. The last year was 1999 when Greg Rusedski beat Tommy Haas in the final.

11-28-2004, 07:58 AM
I like watching golf and don't find it boring at all.

How people can say Tennis is boring to watch are insane. Basketball is boring to watch. Same thing minute after minute. Just a bunch of men running back and forth on the court. The first 59 minutes of a basketball game could be done away with and I'll bet the standings at the end of the season would be the same. Most BB games are decided in the last minute.

Basketball = BORING!

(to all my BB friends... if you enjoy it, cool! I don't mean to offend you. I just don't like it.)

11-29-2004, 10:23 PM
BB is really interesting when it is played the right way. The NBA is almost unwatchable for me because it's all about the individual and team ball is just about dead. But college ball is still fun to watch, lots of movement and unselfish play. A well coached team is beautiful to watch. Duke always plays disciplined ball ... and any Bobby Knight team (Texas Tech right now), he's a jerk but he knows how to coach BB that is for sure.

And I'm curious, what is interesting about watching golf?