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View Full Version : Cumulative Scores AFTER Luxembourg



dryrunguy
10-01-2006, 10:13 AM
And Mr. Koffie takes the lead!!!!

Oploskoffie, 219
Moose, 194
Dry, 175
Evil_Juju, 171
Jack, 148
Jkfriedman, 146
MysteryX, 142
Suliso, 139
Mmmm8, 137
Jadesa, 136
Shtexas, 134
Craigw, 118
Jjnow, 106
Borenore, 101
Jidkova, 99
Hawkgirl, 97
S Blanc, 96
Martini4me, 92
Morct, 89
Kirkus, 80
Cphsrsh, 75
Neka, 70
Sebs, 64
Sluggo 13, 59
GV Girl, 55
FourTeller, 53
Slicentice, 36
Herodotus, 25
Charlie, 24
Jsd123, 21

Kirkus
10-01-2006, 11:49 AM
Well, I suck!

Sebastien447
10-01-2006, 12:07 PM
Well, I suck!

Well, if you suck, then I double suck!

oploskoffie
10-01-2006, 01:09 PM
Happy! http://members.lycos.nl/khalein/pics/cheerlie3.gif

neka
10-01-2006, 03:38 PM
Well, I suck!
ditto! Remind me again why we chose Luxemburg as a tournament when the player on my team (Daniilidou) goes on and wins Seoul this week. [smiley=wall.gif]

neka
10-01-2006, 03:39 PM
Happy! http://members.lycos.nl/khalein/pics/cheerlie3.gif


Well done Oplos !

Jack
10-01-2006, 06:09 PM
Nice going, oploskoffie.

Never would have thought I'd still have a top 5 spot after this week. But then I suppose not too many people went for the Bondarenko-Schiavone-Peschke trifecta.

mmmm8
10-01-2006, 07:17 PM
way to go, oplo!

Charlie02123
10-02-2006, 09:01 PM
Well, I suck!

Well, if you suck, then I double suck!


I would like to point out that you both have twice as many points as I do. I suppose that would mean I quadruple suck? Or maybe I suck to the fourth power? Anyway, my players are actually doing quite well, just not in the specific tournaments designated for this game.

dryrunguy
10-02-2006, 09:54 PM
Well, I suck!

Well, if you suck, then I double suck!


I would like to point out that you both have twice as many points as I do. I suppose that would mean I quadruple suck? Or maybe I suck to the fourth power? Anyway, my players are actually doing quite well, just not in the specific tournaments designated for this game.

Actually, Charlie, that's something I'm thinking about for the next time we do a women's fantasy tournament. When I played the fantasy game at the WTA site, you got points, regardless of where your team played. Sure, you got more points when they played the bigger events, but at least your players got points.

Now, THAT would be MUCH more difficult to score, and it would be really easy to make mistakes. Hell, kirkus and I routinely caught each others' msitakes under this more simplified system. But I think that would be a lot more fun--to be able to pick a team and earn points regardless of where they play. That way, you don't find yourself digging through six tournament web sites looking for entry lists.

And other than Peschke and Alona Bondarenko, the lower category players are doing anyone much good--to this point. That would change if it expanded to additional, lower-tier events. Take Vaidisova last fall, for example. She won three events, none of which would have been included in our current MAM format.

Anyway, I've been thinking about that. But I've done this enough to know that would be A LOT of additional work, and I'm not sure I really want to go there.

Dry

mmmm8
10-02-2006, 10:10 PM
Well, I suck!

Well, if you suck, then I double suck!


I would like to point out that you both have twice as many points as I do. I suppose that would mean I quadruple suck? Or maybe I suck to the fourth power? Anyway, my players are actually doing quite well, just not in the specific tournaments designated for this game.

Actually, Charlie, that's something I'm thinking about for the next time we do a women's fantasy tournament. When I played the fantasy game at the WTA site, you got points, regardless of where your team played. Sure, you got more points when they played the bigger events, but at least your players got points.

Now, THAT would be MUCH more difficult to score, and it would be really easy to make mistakes. Hell, kirkus and I routinely caught each others' msitakes under this more simplified system. But I think that would be a lot more fun--to be able to pick a team and earn points regardless of where they play. That way, you don't find yourself digging through six tournament web sites looking for entry lists.

And other than Peschke and Alona Bondarenko, the lower category players are doing anyone much good--to this point. That would change if it expanded to additional, lower-tier events. Take Vaidisova last fall, for example. She won three events, none of which would have been included in our current MAM format.

Anyway, I've been thinking about that. But I've done this enough to know that would be A LOT of additional work, and I'm not sure I really want to go there.

Dry


I think that while including all the tournaments would make the game a lot easier to the players, it would be too easy. Half the fun is in chosing the right team for the 6 very different tournaments. You take away the strategic part, and you just end up having to choose any 12 players that have been doing well. I think you should keep things as they are and keep the difficulty level up while also not increasing the work level for yourself.

dryrunguy
10-02-2006, 10:38 PM
Good point, mmmm8. Everyone else, please feel free to weigh in on this.

I do think, however, that there would still be some strategy involved. For example, do you pick a player who is sticking to lower tier events (e.g., Vaidisova last year) thinking they're guaranteed to make a good showing? Or do you go with a more established player scheduled to play in a bigger tournaments who's capable of a big score, but could also lose early? There are two ways to look at that.

In addition, while I haven't really been nailed by it yet, I've seen some participants get nailed by untimely player injuries. Maybe that's just part of the game. But maybe if other players on the roster in other events could help stop the bleeding, then it wouldn't be such a death knell...

Seriously, I strongly urge discussion about this topic, because if it turns out that no one really wants a more expansive format (and I'm talking solely about the WTA fantasy tournaments at this point, because I'm in no position to commit kirkus to more work on the men's fantasy tournaments), then I don't have to worry about whether I have the time for it or not!!! :)

Dry

Kirkus
10-03-2006, 12:51 AM
I see pros and cons on both sides of this fence.

As with other fantasy sports, specific games or matches aren't considered as much as in this fantasy tennis format. But at the same time, this makes it unique. My format was based very closely on the ATPs fantasy tennis that I used to play. I slimmed it down a little to make it more manageable to score without the assistance of fancy-schmancy programs.

I'll tell you, I only scored 2 of these things and it took a pretty big chunk out of my Sunday afternoons. I'm not complaining... I actually enjoyed it. But I can see how branching out on the format like that could easily lead to burn out.

I'll think about it and maybe try and come up with a way to automate the scoring process to keep it manageable. I'm probably just going to stick with 2 ATP tournaments a year, between the AO & French and between Wimby and the USO. But maybe one of those could include this suggested revisions.

It'd be great to see other's thoughts on this.

morct
10-03-2006, 06:26 AM
If the lower pointed players are not getting into the tournaments we are getting points from (which is definitely the case with my choices) then why have them there at all?

Let us pick more higher ranked players, still with restrictions on points, and the same amount of tournaments.

This actually makes the picks harder 'cos the draws would make a huge difference, the work of tallying points is the same, but the challenge of harder.

Just an idea!

jkfriedman
10-03-2006, 10:44 AM
Hi

This is the first time I am participating in this type of contest. I picked my team based on getting the most players in the Beijing main draw. I thought that was a good strategy, as I'm in a reasonable position in the standings, though, I had no top players in Luxembourg and SCORED 0. I like the way this is set-up. Not too complicated for me and sounds as if it is reasonable to score (though not easy --THANKS Dry).
By not substituting anyone, I still have options after the Stuttgart tournament. And a strong player contingent in Germany. So I think that this is both easier on getting a team together, and limited substitutions makes it less of a hassle worrying each week about your team.

Jerry

GVGirl
10-03-2006, 11:17 AM
Now I'm going to try to come in last place, can I get a banner for that LOL!

dryrunguy
10-03-2006, 11:19 AM
These are all very useful suggestions and comments...

Dry

Sebastien447
10-03-2006, 06:19 PM
These are all very useful suggestions and comments...

Dry

Do you mean the banner for last place because I have a shot at that one! :P

Jack
10-03-2006, 06:59 PM
A big difference between the Men's road to NY contest, versus the women's contest - Surfaces. It's usually pretty easy to tell who will play on clay vs. hard. So in the run ups to the US Open, although there were a number of smaller clay events, it wasn't as challenging to figure out who was playing where. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing is a matter of opinion.

I think the thing that would drive me crazy - if we included every penny-ante Tier IV event that the WTA decides to schedule - is trying to figure out who is playing where. It was tough enough to do with just the six events! (Having said that, if you expanded it to include all events, I'd still try to figure it out...) :P

Martini4me
10-04-2006, 09:49 AM
My question is, how do you figure out who's playing where? Like jkfriedman, I picked my team based on the Beijing draw (not just the entries, but also where they were in the draw), but then got 1 point in Luxembourg. How do you see who's planning to play where, especially looking 4-5 weeks forward? Not knowing who's playing where, or who's staying in Asia for a few more weeks as opposed toplaying the European tournaments, makes it kind of a crapshoot. If you included more tournaments, then you take the luck of being beaten by players' scheduling away.

Sebastien447
10-04-2006, 10:13 AM
My question is, how do you figure out who's playing where? Like jkfriedman, I picked my team based on the Beijing draw (not just the entries, but also where they were in the draw), but then got 1 point in Luxembourg. How do you see who's planning to play where, especially looking 4-5 weeks forward? Not knowing who's playing where, or who's staying in Asia for a few more weeks as opposed toplaying the European tournaments, makes it kind of a crapshoot. If you included more tournaments, then you take the luck of being beaten by players' scheduling away.

Yes, I wish there was a way to list only the players who are in the draws for the contest tournaments, but of course that would be too much work for contest organizers. Yet, as it stands, it is a lot of work to try to research all of this for the average joe who wants to play.

morct
10-04-2006, 10:34 AM
Yet, as it stands, it is a lot of work to try to research all of this for the average joe who wants to play.


But that makes it more fun - if all we had to do was to look at a list and pick from that it would be too easy!

Sebastien447
10-04-2006, 10:38 AM
Yet, as it stands, it is a lot of work to try to research all of this for the average joe who wants to play.


But that makes it more fun - if all we had to do was to look at a list and pick from that it would be too easy!

sorry, but for me that's not fun ... that's work :-/

mmmm8
10-04-2006, 11:15 AM
Yet, as it stands, it is a lot of work to try to research all of this for the average joe who wants to play.


But that makes it more fun - if all we had to do was to look at a list and pick from that it would be too easy!


I'm with morct on this.

oploskoffie
10-04-2006, 11:29 AM
My question is, how do you figure out who's playing where? Like jkfriedman, I picked my team based on the Beijing draw (not just the entries, but also where they were in the draw), but then got 1 point in Luxembourg. How do you see who's planning to play where, especially looking 4-5 weeks forward? Not knowing who's playing where, or who's staying in Asia for a few more weeks as opposed toplaying the European tournaments, makes it kind of a crapshoot. If you included more tournaments, then you take the luck of being beaten by players' scheduling away.

It's a tricky one for sure. I've looked at all the teams in the MaM competition and a lot of people seem to have tried to go for an as good as possible spread for all tournaments. This can actually work wonderfully well, especially if certain players don't pick up injuries like JHH and Ivanovic have done recently. Sure, there's still the possibility of shooting yourself in the foot, with the lower ranked players especially. Several people have had tournament winners that didn't and/or won't play in the six MaM tournaments. So, I agree that scheduling is a problem that, like Sebastien said, can make life hard for the average joe.

It has it good points as well, though :) and I don't just mean a lightened workload for Dry ;D It does make it more of a challenge, it does require a participant to pay just that extra bit of extra attention to tennis news and perhaps explore some entry lists here and there. Just look at how several of the tennis-mad TAT staff are doing; it really IS a challenge ;D :-X The best suggestion I can make at this point, is to add links to all the tournaments websites in the "How it works" topic. Not all tournaments provide a decent amount of info, but it really can help to have an idea of who's planning to be where and when.

Me, I just looked at the Beijing and Kremlin Cup entry lists and based my team on those two, hoping to make some semi-intelligent trades along the way. Up untill now, it's worked wonders for my score, but there's still plenty of time for it to backfire on me. Playing it that way really cost me in the Hard Road to New York competition ;D

mmmm8
10-04-2006, 12:41 PM
The best suggestion I can make at this point, is to add links to all the tournaments websites in the "How it works" topic. Not all tournaments provide a decent amount of info, but it really can help to have an idea of who's planning to be where and when.

I don't know. maybe I'm wrong, but I would assume that whoever is already putting in the effort to play this game, should be willing to go to atptour.com and wtatour.com and get the links to the tourney sites themselves. Putting them up here would be a nice touch, but I don't think it's really that important.

The problem for me was that the later tournaments didn't have any of the entry lists (except for the Kremlin Cup site, which was wonderfully complete). The Asian tourney sites were the most difficult to get around. So for me, it came down to looking at the other (non MaM) tourney entry lists and going by method of elimination. Otherwise, I could have just gone with oplo's strategy.

oploskoffie
10-04-2006, 01:15 PM
I don't know. maybe I'm wrong, but I would assume that whoever is already putting in the effort to play this game, should be willing to go to atptour.com and wtatour.com and get the links to the tourney sites themselves. Putting them up here would be a nice touch, but I don't think it's really that important.


I'm quite sure people are willing and able to put the effort in, but how many actually do? I don't want to offend anyone, but having been involved with staging several online competitions in the past, it's my experience that you get the highest and most enthousiastic response when the answers are no more than two mouseclicks away. People like to be catered to. I'm not saying putting those links in the topic is essential, but I can see it helping a few people pick their team.

morct
10-04-2006, 02:31 PM
For me the one essential player is Patty Schnyder - she seems to be the Nicolay Davydenko of ladies tennis - seems to turn up in every tournament and while she (almost) never wins the tournament she can always be gaurenteed to get to at least the round of 8.

So much of it is luck too because of injuries etc. I think all of us put in Serena 'cos she was only 5 points but of course she still has to play a tournament!

mmmm8
10-04-2006, 02:35 PM
For me the one essential player is Patty Schnyder - she seems to be the Nicolay Davydenko of ladies tennis - seems to turn up in every tournament and while she (almost) never wins the tournament she can always be gaurenteed to get to at least the round of 8.

So much of it is luck too because of injuries etc. I think all of us put in Serena 'cos she was only 5 points but of course she still has to play a tournament!


Except, unlike Nikolay Davydenko, Patty Schnyder is sort of wacko.

dryrunguy
10-04-2006, 07:35 PM
Well, I ain't spillin' all my secrets for how I approach TAT Fantasy Tennis.

BUT, I will admit that I am one of those people who spends HOURS, and I mean HOURS, pouring over entry lists, printing them out, and usually picking players who are committed to playing the most, with a few exceptions of course.

Anyway, I don't see any reason why we can't post links to the tournament sites. Some are better than others, that's for sure. And if people want to go dig more, they have that opportunity. Posting links also would be a great resource for those 14-year-old Sharapova junkies who were only recently "attracted" to tennis and want to learn more. [smiley=tease.gif]

Dry

Sebastien447
10-04-2006, 07:58 PM
I do not enjoy pouring over draws, but I like to support TAT events. I guess I shouldn't enter if I'm not willing to do the work. I guess it's just a question of what "floats your boat." I hate to sound like I'm knocking these contests. If you enjoy the work involved with this type contest, I think that's great. It just becomes like a job for me so I guess I shouldn't enter. Or I could enter just to round out the bottom of the charts, whatever you think.

Kirkus
10-06-2006, 01:37 PM
Individulism makes the world go 'round.

;D

Moose
10-07-2006, 12:38 PM
if I have things right, tomorrow's Petrova/Golovin match carries bragging rights for next week. GO TATI!

suliso
10-07-2006, 11:46 PM
Sorry, but I hope you are not right :)

Good luck Nadia!

suliso
10-08-2006, 12:16 AM
9 of us have Tatiana and five have Nadia. No one was smart enough to pick both...

Moose
10-08-2006, 08:32 AM
big payoff for those players who belived in Nadia...and I think with our Mr. Koffie having both Nadia and Svets on his team, he will continue to lead MaM at the halfway point.

mmmm8
10-08-2006, 08:35 AM
big payoff for those players who belived in Nadia...and I think with our Mr. Koffie having both Nadia and Svets on his team, he will continue to lead MaM at the halfway point.


I have both on my team and I'm not leading anyone :(

oploskoffie
10-08-2006, 10:38 AM
Next week is kinda make or break. Will Mauresmo decide to play, and if so, how will she do? Do those with MoMo on their team make a big switch, or show a little faith?

I'm still thinking about this one.... :-/

morct
10-08-2006, 11:54 AM
Do those with MoMo on their team make a big switch, or show a little faith?


I'm afraid I have no faith! Substituted her the minute I heard about her injury!

mmmm8
10-08-2006, 12:42 PM
Next week is kinda make or break. Will Mauresmo decide to play, and if so, how will she do? Do those with MoMo on their team make a big switch, or show a little faith?

I'm still thinking about this one.... :-/

I don't have Momo, but I'm having the same issue with Dementieva. I hope that her withdrawal was precautionary, so that she can go deep in her hometown tournament, so I'll stick with her.

oploskoffie
10-08-2006, 01:16 PM
Next week is kinda make or break. Will Mauresmo decide to play, and if so, how will she do? Do those with MoMo on their team make a big switch, or show a little faith?

I'm still thinking about this one.... :-/

I don't have Momo, but I'm having the same issue with Dementieva. I hope that her withdrawal was precautionary, so that she can go deep in her hometown tournament, so I'll stick with her.

Does having a first round bye mean you can call in sick later? With the trade deadline looming, I'm not too confident about keeping someone in who is a 50/50 possibilty at best.

Man how I wish I'd picked Tati instead of Ana as a first trade... :-X

oploskoffie
10-08-2006, 01:25 PM
Ah, whatever... MoMo is doubtful for Moscow, will probably play in Zurich but isn't entered in Linz. That's a 33,3% participation ratio as it stands. That's not enough. She's out of my team.

:-X