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oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 03:31 AM
The title says it all! Discuss nominees, excludees, TAT's 2007 Oscars Prediction Contest and everything else Oscars 2007 right here! :)

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 03:47 AM
For those who want to see the nominations live: CNN.com has "Free Pipeline Day" all day today, and they will be airing the nominations ceremony from 8:38et onwards :)

craighickman
01-23-2007, 04:09 AM
Fabulous!

I'm all over it. And I've been up all night. Nominations anounced in exactly 90 minutes.

Go Dreamgirls!!!

Go Bill Condon!

Go Jennifer Hudson!

Go Eddie Murphy!

Go Sharen Davis!

Go Virginia Katz!

GVGirl
01-23-2007, 04:17 AM
Fabulous!

I'm all over it. And I've been up all night. Nominations anounced in exactly 90 minutes.

Go Dreamgirls!!!

Go Bill Condon!

Go Jennifer Hudson!

Go Eddie Murphy!

Go Sharen Davis!

Go Virginia Katz!

Thanks for reminding me!

craighickman
01-23-2007, 04:40 AM
59 minutes and counting.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:25 AM
13 minutes.

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 05:26 AM
13 minutes.

Yup. Can't even watch this afternoon's episode of Dr. Phil now ;D

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 05:33 AM
Five minutes ;D

*tick tock...

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:34 AM
four minutes. ;D

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:36 AM
2 minutes.

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 05:36 AM
I don't want to see Meyers telling us about the weather, I want Oscars >:(

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:38 AM
Here we go!!!!!!!!!!

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:39 AM
Go Jennifer!!!

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 05:39 AM
Music! Lights! Salma Hayek! We're off! ;D

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:39 AM
Go Eddie!!!

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:40 AM
Go Forest!!!

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:41 AM
Bill Condon was snubbed!!!!

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:42 AM
Dreamgirls can't win Best Picture!

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 05:42 AM
Fancy Mark Wahlberg getting a nod! :o The media sounded surprised as well ;D

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:43 AM
OH. MY. GOD.

Dreamgirls didn't even get a nomination.

I am soooooooooooooo bummed out.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:49 AM
I am in shock.

Moose
01-23-2007, 05:50 AM
OH. MY. GOD.

Dreamgirls didn't even get a nomination.

I am soooooooooooooo bummed out.

Totally mystifying. Who did the producers piss off over the years?

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:51 AM
I am so shocked, I can't breathe.

Moose
01-23-2007, 05:52 AM
Fancy Mark Wahlberg getting a nod! :o The media sounded surprised as well ;D


Just read an article about Marky Mark last night, Oplo, talking aobut how the Hollywood community has come to beleive the guy is an incredible character actor, and how his star has risen in the thoughts of producers and studios with "Departed" and "Invincible".

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 05:54 AM
Fancy Mark Wahlberg getting a nod! :o The media sounded surprised as well ;D


Just read an article about Marky Mark last night, Oplo, talking aobut how the Hollywood community has come to beleive the guy is an incredible character actor, and how his star has risen in the thoughts of producers and studios with "Departed" and "Invincible".

And what do you and the rest of the TAT community think about Mr. Wahlberg? ;)

Moose
01-23-2007, 05:57 AM
Fancy Mark Wahlberg getting a nod! :o The media sounded surprised as well ;D


Just read an article about Marky Mark last night, Oplo, talking aobut how the Hollywood community has come to beleive the guy is an incredible character actor, and how his star has risen in the thoughts of producers and studios with "Departed" and "Invincible".

And what do you and the rest of the TAT community think about Mr. Wahlberg? ;)

Honestly...I've gone from thinking he was just a cute guy in underwear singing cheesy rap to thinking of him as a very high caliber performer. Loved "The Italian Job" and "Boogie Nights"

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:01 AM
I still can't breathe.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:05 AM
OH. MY. GOD.

Dreamgirls didn't even get a nomination.

I am soooooooooooooo bummed out.

Totally mystifying. Who did the producers piss off over the years?


Did you see it yet? It leads the field with 8 nominations, but no picture or director

mmmm8
01-23-2007, 06:12 AM
Craig. I saw the CNN headline about best picture noms and my first thought was that you must be livid.


Bad me hasn't seen any of the best picture films, so I'm not going to say anything.

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 06:14 AM
I've got the nominations in the topic :)

http://www.talkabouttennis.com/cgi-bin/TATv2/YaBB.pl?num=1169556042

Just waiting to find out which songs are nominated for the movies mentioned. Three songs from Dreamgirls are in that category!

mmmm8
01-23-2007, 06:15 AM
Fancy Mark Wahlberg getting a nod! :o The media sounded surprised as well ;D


Just read an article about Marky Mark last night, Oplo, talking aobut how the Hollywood community has come to beleive the guy is an incredible character actor, and how his star has risen in the thoughts of producers and studios with "Departed" and "Invincible".

And what do you and the rest of the TAT community think about Mr. Wahlberg? ;)


He's a good actor. But I have yet to see him in a role that stretches him. (haven't seen the Departed, but that doesn't seem like one)

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:17 AM
Did you see it yet? It leads the field with 8 nominations, but no picture or director

Still haven't...things keep getting in the way. Once the Australian ends.

Know you didn't like it, but I'm happy with the recognition for "Little Miss Sunshine". It's the kind of movie that always gets enough love from enough people to sneak its way in. No chance at winning, however.

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:18 AM
Fancy Mark Wahlberg getting a nod! :o The media sounded surprised as well ;D


Just read an article about Marky Mark last night, Oplo, talking aobut how the Hollywood community has come to beleive the guy is an incredible character actor, and how his star has risen in the thoughts of producers and studios with "Departed" and "Invincible".

And what do you and the rest of the TAT community think about Mr. Wahlberg? ;)


He's a good actor. But I have yet to see him in a role that stretches him. (haven't seen the Departed, but that doesn't seem like one)

Rent "Invincible" sometime M8. Not that its a stretch either. But he does a great job in it. It's a Phlly guy does good movie (another "Rocky" like story), so that might explain part of its appeal to me.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:19 AM
I've got the nominations in the topic :)

http://www.talkabouttennis.com/cgi-bin/TATv2/YaBB.pl?num=1169556042

Just waiting to find out which songs are nominated for the movies mentioned. Three songs from Dreamgirls are in that category!

Listen, Patience, I Love You I Do. (from Dreamgirls)

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:20 AM
Ryan Gosling was outstanding in "Half Nelson", but Shareeka Epps stole that movie. Sorry to see she wasn't recognized as well.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:21 AM
Craig. I saw the CNN headline about best picture noms and my first thought was that you must be livid.


Say a prayer for me. First, the Patriots Lose. Then Dreamgirls fails to post where it really matters. And Andy has to play Roger.

I guess this means Jennifer Hudson...

I can't let myself even thing that.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:23 AM
Craig. I saw the CNN headline about best picture noms and my first thought was that you must be livid.


Say a prayer for me. First, the Patriots Lose. Then Dreamgirls fails to post where it really matters. And Andy has to play Roger.

I guess this means Jennifer Hudson...

I can't let myself even thing that.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(



Jen's a lock, craig. But Rinko Kukuchi stole Babel. You could not keep your eyes off her in every scene she was in.

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 06:24 AM
I've got the nominations in the topic :)

http://www.talkabouttennis.com/cgi-bin/TATv2/YaBB.pl?num=1169556042

Just waiting to find out which songs are nominated for the movies mentioned. Three songs from Dreamgirls are in that category!

Listen, Patience, I Love You I Do. (from Dreamgirls)



Grazie!! :) Adding as we speak...

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:28 AM
Craig. I saw the CNN headline about best picture noms and my first thought was that you must be livid.


Say a prayer for me. First, the Patriots Lose. Then Dreamgirls fails to post where it really matters. And Andy has to play Roger.

I guess this means Jennifer Hudson...

I can't let myself even thing that.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(



Jen's a lock, craig. But Rinko Kukuchi stole Babel. You could not keep your eyes off her in every scene she was in.

I don't know anymore. I don't know what to make of it all. I don't want to call racism, do I? No. It can't be that. Still. If the picture/director could be snubbed they might pick an actress from Babel just because.

I'll have to do some research, but this must be the first time in Oscar history that the film that leads the nominations has no Picture, Director, Actor, Actress, or Screenplay nomination.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:29 AM
Did you see it yet? It leads the field with 8 nominations, but no picture or director

Still haven't...things keep getting in the way. Once the Australian ends.

Know you didn't like it, but I'm happy with the recognition for "Little Miss Sunshine". It's the kind of movie that always gets enough love from enough people to sneak its way in. No chance at winning, however.


If Abigail Breslin steals Jennifer's Oscar....

owendonovan
01-23-2007, 06:32 AM
you swear?

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:36 AM
you swear?

You talkin to me?

oploskoffie
01-23-2007, 06:39 AM
I'll get back to y'all about my favs in about two weeks time. I'm gonna be seeing a LOT of movies in that time ;D

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:41 AM
I'll get back to y'all about my favs in about two weeks time. I'm gonna be seeing a LOT of movies in that time ;D


they moved up the nominations, and the Oscars, by a months time. Didn't they know it interefered with the Australian? Can't spend hours watching matches, and catch all the movies in time.

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:46 AM
and by the way....huge props for Kate Winslet, who scored her 5th Acting nomination at the tender age of 32. And once again, she'll most likely be going down to defeat. Hard to beleive she keeps drawing blanks while Hillary Swank has 2.

owendonovan
01-23-2007, 06:50 AM
you swear?

You talkin to me?



Craig I was impersonating Deena. My boyfriend asked if "that tennis person", you, was pissed. He had to wake me up to tell me how pissed he is.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:53 AM
you swear?

You talkin to me?



Craig I was impersonating Deena. My boyfriend asked if "that tennis person", you, was pissed. He had to wake me up to tell me how pissed he is.


Ah.

I'm so ready to slit my wrists, I didn't get the joke.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:55 AM
and by the way....huge props for Kate Winslet, who scored her 5th Acting nomination at the tender age of 32. And once again, she'll most likely be going down to defeat. Hard to beleive she keeps drawing blanks while Hillary Swank has 2.

I like Hilary Swank. A lot.

Moose
01-23-2007, 07:01 AM
and by the way....huge props for Kate Winslet, who scored her 5th Acting nomination at the tender age of 32. And once again, she'll most likely be going down to defeat. Hard to beleive she keeps drawing blanks while Hillary Swank has 2.

I like Hilary Swank. A lot.

She's great craig. And she deserved it for "Boys Don't Cry"...but I'm still in disbelief every time I re-watch "Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind", that Swank beat Winslet that year with "Million Dollar Baby".

craighickman
01-23-2007, 07:09 AM
and by the way....huge props for Kate Winslet, who scored her 5th Acting nomination at the tender age of 32. And once again, she'll most likely be going down to defeat. Hard to beleive she keeps drawing blanks while Hillary Swank has 2.

I like Hilary Swank. A lot.

She's great craig. And she deserved it for "Boys Don't Cry"...but I'm still in disbelief every time I re-watch "Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind", that Swank beat Winslet that year with "Million Dollar Baby".


What's that film about? I never saw it.

Moose
01-23-2007, 07:18 AM
and by the way....huge props for Kate Winslet, who scored her 5th Acting nomination at the tender age of 32. And once again, she'll most likely be going down to defeat. Hard to beleive she keeps drawing blanks while Hillary Swank has 2.

I like Hilary Swank. A lot.

She's great craig. And she deserved it for "Boys Don't Cry"...but I'm still in disbelief every time I re-watch "Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind", that Swank beat Winslet that year with "Million Dollar Baby".


What's that film about? I never saw it.

Defies explanation. Sort of a love story, but that does not do it justice. It's a Charlie Kaufman/Michel Gondry project, so it defies simple explanation. Let me just say that eventually, love does seem to conquer all.

shtexas
01-23-2007, 07:19 AM
So, are we sufficiently shocked this morning?

craighickman
01-23-2007, 07:22 AM
So, are we sufficiently shocked this morning?

I'm halfway through a fifth, and I don't drink.

Ti-Amie
01-23-2007, 07:24 AM
and by the way....huge props for Kate Winslet, who scored her 5th Acting nomination at the tender age of 32. And once again, she'll most likely be going down to defeat. Hard to beleive she keeps drawing blanks while Hillary Swank has 2.

I like Hilary Swank. A lot.

She's great craig. And she deserved it for "Boys Don't Cry"...but I'm still in disbelief every time I re-watch "Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind", that Swank beat Winslet that year with "Million Dollar Baby".


A movie like "Eternal Sunshine' deserved much more recognition than it got. I think people thought the public wouldn't get it. It's not like they're flocking to see any of the films nominated for best picture this year. That is what struck me about the nominations. That, and the fact that "Dreamgirls" was held back during Christmas which is still beyond me.

beaujarkko
01-23-2007, 07:29 AM
I think "Little Miss Sunshine" is this year's "Sideways" and I for one couldn't be happier about the nomination. The funny thing is, that movie and "Dreamgirls" really got about the same amount of "love" by the critics, who widely said that both movies, while being okay, never took the step to "greatness", if you will. And sometimes it comes down to marketing... Entertainment Weekly had an article with a comment about something like, "Little Miss Sunshine has done everything except trademark the color yellow to insure itself nominations this awards season."

And even though I love little Abigail, you gotta love Jennifer or Rinko for the win in that category; that's where it's deserved.

shtexas
01-23-2007, 07:30 AM
So, are we sufficiently shocked this morning?

I'm halfway through a fifth, and I don't drink.


Strange thing is I said somewhere in the original Dreamgirls thread if Letters From Iwo Jima got into the best picture race that could be a problem for Dreamgirls. But, I was talking Oscar night, not nomination morning.

Moose
01-23-2007, 07:36 AM
I think "Little Miss Sunshine" is this year's "Sideways" and I for one couldn't be happier about the nomination. The funny thing is, that movie and "Dreamgirls" really got about the same amount of "love" by the critics, who widely said that both movies, while being okay, never took the step to "greatness", if you will. And sometimes it comes down to marketing... Entertainment Weekly had an article with a comment about something like, "Little Miss Sunshine has done everything except trademark the color yellow to insure itself nominations this awards season."

And even though I love little Abigail, you gotta love Jennifer or Rinko for the win in that category; that's where it's deserved.

totally agree, Beaujarko, 'cept that I think it is more this years "Breaking Away". "Sideways" though a little film, had big artsy ambitions. "LMS" was just a small film that audiences loved, much like Breaking Away.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 07:37 AM
David Geffen has probably just fired his PR team.

Someone on oscarwatch.com said that the entire cast and team of Dreamgirls was crying, especially Jennifer.

beaujarkko
01-23-2007, 07:49 AM
totally agree, Beaujarko, 'cept that I think it is more this years "Breaking Away". "Sideways" though a little film, had big artsy ambitions. "LMS" was just a small film that audiences loved, much like Breaking Away.


Nicely put. And really, Little Miss Sunshine got a LOT of word-of-mouth publicity. I (and many others) got to see it at the Traverse City Film Festival over the summer before it was released widely, and the number of people that all my friends and I told... at least 100 people easily went to see the movie just because we told them they had to. And that's just our group of like, 10 individuals. It was the little film that just might be able to.

bea26
01-23-2007, 08:58 AM
What a snoozefest of a list. There really was so little to celebrate this year. The one bright spot, all the nominations for Pan's Labyrinth. A stunning movie unlike anything you've ever seen. A must-see.

nelslus
01-23-2007, 10:14 AM
What a snoozefest of a list. There really was so little to celebrate this year. The one bright spot, all the nominations for Pan's Labyrinth. A stunning movie unlike anything you've ever seen. A must-see.

Bea- I gotta add in once again my vote for Pan's Labyrinth. While I haven't seen all of the pictures yet (add me to the list of no-movie-mode until post-Aussie-time- Pan's is one of the best films I have seen for years. Certainly my favorite film this year so far. In the nelslus universe, the film would also have gotten a number of acting nominations.

And, I'll say it- while Geffen certainly could/would be a factor- the lack of nominations for best picture and director for "Dreamgirls"= race. Don't know if it's blatant, or unconscious, or inadvertent- but, boils down to= race, IMO. There just aren't many times I've seen a film with the cache of "Dreamgirls" not get the big nominations. EXCEPT when the film has pretty much an all-African-American cast. And, yes, I know "The Color Purple" got a best picture nomination- but, managed to get snubbed with best Director. AND- to put my cards on the table- "Dreamgirls" definitely is not my favorite film of the year. But, it certainly was nomination-worthy- and, again, I think if a similar film with all of the "Dreamgirls" variables was instead an all-white film, it would have gotten the picture and director nominations. (And more would have been done to get the maximum box office to GUARANTEE nominations at least.) Still, Jennifer better damned well get the Oscar.....

To be fair, the Academy has always managed to make plenty of idiot decisions that have nothing to do with race. The Academy too often just cannot get out of the way of its own comfort zone. So many years, the best films have been foreign- which too often end up either getting snubbed or not enough nominations. Popularity and box office have always been way too important factors.

I suppose that what we should be shocked about concerning the Academy is that we allow ourselves to still be shocked.

shtexas
01-23-2007, 10:22 AM
What a snoozefest of a list. There really was so little to celebrate this year. The one bright spot, all the nominations for Pan's Labyrinth. A stunning movie unlike anything you've ever seen. A must-see.

Bea- I gotta add in once again my vote for Pan's Labyrinth. While I haven't seen all of the pictures yet (add me to the list of no-movie-mode until post-Aussie-time- Pan's is one of the best films I have seen for years. Certainly my favorite film this year so far. In the nelslus universe, the film would also have gotten a number of acting nominations.

And, I'll say it- while Geffen certainly could/would be a factor- the lack of nominations for best picture and director for "Dreamgirls"= race. Don't know if it's blatant, or unconscious, or inadvertent- but, boils down to= race, IMO. There just aren't many times I've seen a film with the cache of "Dreamgirls" not get the big nominations. EXCEPT when the film has pretty much an all-African-American cast. And, yes, I know "The Color Purple" got a best picture nomination- but, managed to get snubbed with best Director. AND- to put my cards on the table- "Dreamgirls" definitely is not my favorite film of the year. But, it certainly was nomination-worthy- and, again, I think if a similar film with all of the "Dreamgirls" variables was instead an all-white film, it would have gotten the picture and director nominations. (And more would have been done to get the maximum box office to GUARANTEE nominations at least.) Still, Jennifer better damned well get the Oscar.....

To be fair, the Academy has always managed to make plenty of idiot decisions that have nothing to do with race. The Academy too often just cannot get out of the way of its own comfort zone. So many years, the best films have been foreign- which too often end up either getting snubbed or not enough nominations. Popularity and box office have always been way too important factors.

I suppose that what we should be shocked about concerning the Academy is that we allow ourselves to still be shocked.

I am still shocked. There have been shocks through the years with the nominations. But, never the film many considered the favorite missing the best picture nomination all together.

While I am usually not one to point fingers too quick, my Mom called this morning to tell me how stunned/horrified she was Dreamgirls was left out of the best picture race, and then said "Do you think it has anything to do with it being an all black cast?" Hmm....

Ti-Amie
01-23-2007, 10:29 AM
What a snoozefest of a list. There really was so little to celebrate this year. The one bright spot, all the nominations for Pan's Labyrinth. A stunning movie unlike anything you've ever seen. A must-see.

Bea- I gotta add in once again my vote for Pan's Labyrinth. While I haven't seen all of the pictures yet (add me to the list of no-movie-mode until post-Aussie-time- Pan's is one of the best films I have seen for years. Certainly my favorite film this year so far. In the nelslus universe, the film would also have gotten a number of acting nominations.

And, I'll say it- while Geffen certainly could/would be a factor- the lack of nominations for best picture and director for "Dreamgirls"= race. Don't know if it's blatant, or unconscious, or inadvertent- but, boils down to= race, IMO. There just aren't many times I've seen a film with the cache of "Dreamgirls" not get the big nominations. EXCEPT when the film has pretty much an all-African-American cast. And, yes, I know "The Color Purple" got a best picture nomination- but, managed to get snubbed with best Director. AND- to put my cards on the table- "Dreamgirls" definitely is not my favorite film of the year. But, it certainly was nomination-worthy- and, again, I think if a similar film with all of the "Dreamgirls" variables was instead an all-white film, it would have gotten the picture and director nominations. (And more would have been done to get the maximum box office to GUARANTEE nominations at least.) Still, Jennifer better damned well get the Oscar.....

To be fair, the Academy has always managed to make plenty of idiot decisions that have nothing to do with race. The Academy too often just cannot get out of the way of its own comfort zone. So many years, the best films have been foreign- which too often end up either getting snubbed or not enough nominations. Popularity and box office have always been way too important factors.

I suppose that what we should be shocked about concerning the Academy is that we allow ourselves to still be shocked.

I have to reluctantly agree nelslus. I wish I didn't have to. Musicals, good musicals, are few and far between. "West Side Story", which while dealing with ethnic/racial conflict featured an all white cast. I wonder how many people remember the Latino protests about casting the late Natalie Wood as "Maria" instead of a Latina. Aside from Rita Moreno I don't think there were very many Latino's in the movie. There were also the jokes about Tony wandering into an alley and calling for "Maria" and only one girl answering but I digress.
Since then theres been the much hyped and by me much hated "Moulin Rouge" and the watchable dark tale of "Chicago". "Dreamgirls" is the first true musical since "West Side Story" and it lives up to the standards set by that great movie.
I'm sure there are people who hate Geffen enough to throw him under a bus in this situation but as Nelslus says there is only one explanation.

Moose
01-23-2007, 10:37 AM
What a snoozefest of a list. There really was so little to celebrate this year. The one bright spot, all the nominations for Pan's Labyrinth. A stunning movie unlike anything you've ever seen. A must-see.

Bea- I gotta add in once again my vote for Pan's Labyrinth. While I haven't seen all of the pictures yet (add me to the list of no-movie-mode until post-Aussie-time- Pan's is one of the best films I have seen for years. Certainly my favorite film this year so far. In the nelslus universe, the film would also have gotten a number of acting nominations.

And, I'll say it- while Geffen certainly could/would be a factor- the lack of nominations for best picture and director for "Dreamgirls"= race. Don't know if it's blatant, or unconscious, or inadvertent- but, boils down to= race, IMO. There just aren't many times I've seen a film with the cache of "Dreamgirls" not get the big nominations. EXCEPT when the film has pretty much an all-African-American cast. And, yes, I know "The Color Purple" got a best picture nomination- but, managed to get snubbed with best Director. AND- to put my cards on the table- "Dreamgirls" definitely is not my favorite film of the year. But, it certainly was nomination-worthy- and, again, I think if a similar film with all of the "Dreamgirls" variables was instead an all-white film, it would have gotten the picture and director nominations. (And more would have been done to get the maximum box office to GUARANTEE nominations at least.) Still, Jennifer better damned well get the Oscar.....

To be fair, the Academy has always managed to make plenty of idiot decisions that have nothing to do with race. The Academy too often just cannot get out of the way of its own comfort zone. So many years, the best films have been foreign- which too often end up either getting snubbed or not enough nominations. Popularity and box office have always been way too important factors.

I suppose that what we should be shocked about concerning the Academy is that we allow ourselves to still be shocked.

I have to reluctantly agree nelslus. I wish I didn't have to. Musicals, good musicals, are few and far between. "West Side Story", which while dealing with ethnic/racial conflict featured an all white cast. I wonder how many people remember the Latino protests about casting the late Natalie Wood as "Maria" instead of a Latina. Aside from Rita Moreno I don't think there were very many Latino's in the movie. There were also the jokes about Tony wandering into an alley and calling for "Maria" and only one girl answering but I digress.
Since then theres been the much hyped and by me much hated "Moulin Rouge" and the watchable dark tale of "Chicago". "Dreamgirls" is the first true musical since "West Side Story" and it lives up to the standards set by that great movie.
I'm sure there are people who hate Geffen enough to throw him under a bus in this situation but as Nelslus says there is only one explanation.


7 of the Acting nominations went to minorities, Ti. 8 if you count Rinko's. Thats gotta be a record. And I don't think anyone was expecting Beyonce or Jamie Foxx to get nominated in acting.

Geffen would be eligible for one award - Best Pic.

The more I look this over, the more its seems clear to me that the snub is about Geffen, not about race.

shtexas
01-23-2007, 10:52 AM
What a snoozefest of a list. There really was so little to celebrate this year. The one bright spot, all the nominations for Pan's Labyrinth. A stunning movie unlike anything you've ever seen. A must-see.

Bea- I gotta add in once again my vote for Pan's Labyrinth. While I haven't seen all of the pictures yet (add me to the list of no-movie-mode until post-Aussie-time- Pan's is one of the best films I have seen for years. Certainly my favorite film this year so far. In the nelslus universe, the film would also have gotten a number of acting nominations.

And, I'll say it- while Geffen certainly could/would be a factor- the lack of nominations for best picture and director for "Dreamgirls"= race. Don't know if it's blatant, or unconscious, or inadvertent- but, boils down to= race, IMO. There just aren't many times I've seen a film with the cache of "Dreamgirls" not get the big nominations. EXCEPT when the film has pretty much an all-African-American cast. And, yes, I know "The Color Purple" got a best picture nomination- but, managed to get snubbed with best Director. AND- to put my cards on the table- "Dreamgirls" definitely is not my favorite film of the year. But, it certainly was nomination-worthy- and, again, I think if a similar film with all of the "Dreamgirls" variables was instead an all-white film, it would have gotten the picture and director nominations. (And more would have been done to get the maximum box office to GUARANTEE nominations at least.) Still, Jennifer better damned well get the Oscar.....

To be fair, the Academy has always managed to make plenty of idiot decisions that have nothing to do with race. The Academy too often just cannot get out of the way of its own comfort zone. So many years, the best films have been foreign- which too often end up either getting snubbed or not enough nominations. Popularity and box office have always been way too important factors.

I suppose that what we should be shocked about concerning the Academy is that we allow ourselves to still be shocked.

I have to reluctantly agree nelslus. I wish I didn't have to. Musicals, good musicals, are few and far between. "West Side Story", which while dealing with ethnic/racial conflict featured an all white cast. I wonder how many people remember the Latino protests about casting the late Natalie Wood as "Maria" instead of a Latina. Aside from Rita Moreno I don't think there were very many Latino's in the movie. There were also the jokes about Tony wandering into an alley and calling for "Maria" and only one girl answering but I digress.
Since then theres been the much hyped and by me much hated "Moulin Rouge" and the watchable dark tale of "Chicago". "Dreamgirls" is the first true musical since "West Side Story" and it lives up to the standards set by that great movie.
I'm sure there are people who hate Geffen enough to throw him under a bus in this situation but as Nelslus says there is only one explanation.


7 of the Acting nominations went to minorities, Ti. 8 if you count Rinko's. Thats gotta be a record. And I don't think anyone was expecting Beyonce or Jamie Foxx to get nominated in acting.

Geffen would be eligible for one award - Best Pic.

The more I look this over, the more its seems clear to me that the snub is about Geffen, not about race.


I also wonder if the Oscar nomination system is to blame. Maybe Dreamgirls was on most of the members lists, but since they rank them, it was ranked 3rd or 4th on each list. My undertanding is you need a certain number of #1s and at worst a lot of #2s if enough films to fill the category didn't get enough #1 votes. That being said, I find it hard to believe Little Miss Sunshine received so many #1s.

On a side note, I guess I need to see Letters From Iwo Jima.

bea26
01-23-2007, 11:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A. And while I know Craig and others have really embraced this movie (and frankly convinced me to give it a shot and see it), it really wasn't the movie to beat here in the lead-up to the nominations. Critical response has been generally positive but nothing sharply enthusiastic. Jennifer's made the most impact and it would've been a shock had she not scored a nomination, but even Eddie's wasn't a given. He's benefitted from the buzz she's created. No one here thought this movie was a guaranteed top five. I think it's lack of a best picture nomination is standing out because it was nominated for the most awards but the truth is, three of them were for song as it was a musical, so the tally is a little inflated. Sorry to those who adore this movie, but the feeling isn't 100% mutual here.

shtexas
01-23-2007, 11:17 AM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A. And while I know Craig and others have really embraced this movie (and frankly convinced me to give it a shot and see it), it really wasn't the movie to beat here in the lead-up to the nominations. Critical response has been generally positive but nothing sharply enthusiastic. Jennifer's made the most impact and it would've been a shock had she not scored a nomination, but even Eddie's wasn't a given. He's benefitted from the buzz she's created. No one here thought this movie was a guaranteed top five. I think it's lack of a best picture nomination is standing out because it was nominated for the most awards but the truth is, three of them were for song as it was a musical, so the tally is a little inflated. Sorry to those who adore this movie, but the feeling isn't 100% mutual here.

I still need to see one film (Letters), but I think Dreamgirls was at least better than Little Miss Sunshine and, dare I say it, The Queen (a well-made film with a stunning performance). I loved Babel, which I know you hated, and I'm still not sure if The Departed is above or below Dreamgirls. I have quibbles with both, but both had so much energy in completely different ways, I can't quibble too much.

nelslus
01-23-2007, 11:23 AM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A. And while I know Craig and others have really embraced this movie (and frankly convinced me to give it a shot and see it), it really wasn't the movie to beat here in the lead-up to the nominations. Critical response has been generally positive but nothing sharply enthusiastic. Jennifer's made the most impact and it would've been a shock had she not scored a nomination, but even Eddie's wasn't a given. He's benefitted from the buzz she's created. No one here thought this movie was a guaranteed top five. I think it's lack of a best picture nomination is standing out because it was nominated for the most awards but the truth is, three of them were for song as it was a musical, so the tally is a little inflated. Sorry to those who adore this movie, but the feeling isn't 100% mutual here.

Oh, on the one hand, Bea, I agree. As I've been honest about, "Dreamgirls" isn't my favorite film of the year, either. However, big Oscar wins and nominations have often gone to films that were nowhere near my favorites- nor the critics. But, the Oscars DO tend to reward a film like "Dreamgirls" with the buzz it had, its hype, its pizzazz, etc., etc. with the big nominations- WITH an all-white cast. And again, if this were an all-white (or, of course, predominantly white) film, I think it would have gone wider much sooner and gotten bigger box office- which would have also made it easier to get the big nominations.

And, certainly it's a step in the right direction that minority actors and actresses are finally getting nominations and wins. But, let's face it- this is a REAL recent phenomena. For all of the minority actors that we can bring up who have been nominated this year and in the past few years- trust me, I can come up with TONS of great minority/foreign actors/actresses who never came close to a nomination- and/or were never given the chance at parts that would lead to nominations/wins. AND- the best picture nomination is still the biggie- leads to the most increased box office almost always. I will still contend that the lack of at least best picture/direction nominations for a film such as "Dreamgirls"- whether or not you personally like it or not- has so much to do with race.

Moose
01-23-2007, 11:23 AM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A.

Then you know how Geffen is detested, Bea. Any thoughts if that was a factor in the snub?

bea26
01-23-2007, 11:32 AM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A.

Then you know how Geffen is detested, Bea. Any thoughts if that was a factor in the snub?


I don't think people hate him any more than they hate any other filthy rich mogul here. I actually think Dreamgirls hurt Dreamgirls the most. The lead actress was overshadowed and the campaign for it couldn't sell it well enough. Lack of critical sound-bytes, gravitas, no Judi Dench type in sight. Also a factor, I believe, is Chicago (made by the same people). It rode a wave of buzz to an Oscar, only to be looked back at as overcooked and underdeserving soonafter.

Ti-Amie
01-23-2007, 11:52 AM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A.

Then you know how Geffen is detested, Bea. Any thoughts if that was a factor in the snub?


I don't think people hate him any more than they hate any other filthy rich mogul here. I actually think Dreamgirls hurt Dreamgirls the most. The lead actress was overshadowed and the campaign for it couldn't sell it well enough. Lack of critical sound-bytes, gravitas, no Judi Dench type in sight. Also a factor, I believe, is Chicago (made by the same people). It rode a wave of buzz to an Oscar, only to be looked back at as overcooked and underdeserving soonafter.

The business is what it is. It's always too simplistic to talk about race/class/politics with movies. I do think that in this case race is going to be an issue whether it's justified or not. I'm sure the industry feels it did right by the cast and all minorities with how it picked it's nominees. Unfortunately many will not see it that way.

My first comments were that "Dreamgirls" is a better movie than "Chicago" so I'm glad your insider knowledge bears me out. I also think "Moulin Rouge", another crappy movie IMO factors into this as well. I think "Dreamgirls" is a better movie than both of them but who am I? :)

nelslus
01-23-2007, 11:57 AM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A.

Then you know how Geffen is detested, Bea. Any thoughts if that was a factor in the snub?


I don't think people hate him any more than they hate any other filthy rich mogul here. I actually think Dreamgirls hurt Dreamgirls the most. The lead actress was overshadowed and the campaign for it couldn't sell it well enough. Lack of critical sound-bytes, gravitas, no Judi Dench type in sight. Also a factor, I believe, is Chicago (made by the same people). It rode a wave of buzz to an Oscar, only to be looked back at as overcooked and underdeserving soonafter.

I can't wait to hear Judi Dench's "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going."

bea26
01-23-2007, 12:02 PM
It's also the Golden Globes, which are very different from the Oscars. They'd like to think they're more important than they are. But the voting block is 93 people. And they tend to go for star turns over serious contenders. They'll nominate Beyonce. The Academy won't. Evita won for Best Picture. The Academy didn't even nominate it.

AmonRa777
01-23-2007, 12:03 PM
I loved "Chicago",,,No question "Dreamgirls" is better...I thought "Mulon Rouge" was a mess...You never know about the Academy..I have learned there are no rules adn no objectivity...Its all about the mood of the voters each year...

Moose
01-23-2007, 12:05 PM
It's also the Golden Globes, which are very different from the Oscars. They'd like to think they're more important than they are. But the voting block is 93 people. And they tend to go for star turns over serious contenders. They'll nominate Beyonce. The Academy won't. Evita won for Best Picture. The Academy didn't even nominate it.

and Pia Zadora had a Golden Globe bought for her by her ex-husband was a GG winner, too.

bea26
01-23-2007, 12:15 PM
and Pia Zadora had a Golden Globe bought for her by her ex-husband was a GG winner, too.

Hello.

Moose
01-23-2007, 12:20 PM
though, in fairness to the Foreign Press, they did change the rules for GG voters after the Zadora fiasco.

nelslus
01-23-2007, 01:25 PM
It's also the Golden Globes, which are very different from the Oscars. They'd like to think they're more important than they are. But the voting block is 93 people. And they tend to go for star turns over serious contenders. They'll nominate Beyonce. The Academy won't. Evita won for Best Picture. The Academy didn't even nominate it.

and Pia Zadora had a Golden Globe bought for her by her ex-husband was a GG winner, too.

Apparently, you have never seen Ms. Zadora's astonishing performance in "Butterfly." [smiley=bat.gif]

bea26
01-23-2007, 01:32 PM
It's also the Golden Globes, which are very different from the Oscars. They'd like to think they're more important than they are. But the voting block is 93 people. And they tend to go for star turns over serious contenders. They'll nominate Beyonce. The Academy won't. Evita won for Best Picture. The Academy didn't even nominate it.

and Pia Zadora had a Golden Globe bought for her by her ex-husband was a GG winner, too.

Apparently, you have never seen Ms. Zadora's astonishing performance in "Butterfly." [smiley=bat.gif]


I didn't, I wasn't invited to the island.

shtexas
01-23-2007, 02:19 PM
It's also the Golden Globes, which are very different from the Oscars. They'd like to think they're more important than they are. But the voting block is 93 people. And they tend to go for star turns over serious contenders. They'll nominate Beyonce. The Academy won't. Evita won for Best Picture. The Academy didn't even nominate it.

and Pia Zadora had a Golden Globe bought for her by her ex-husband was a GG winner, too.

Apparently, you have never seen Ms. Zadora's astonishing performance in "Butterfly." [smiley=bat.gif]


Have you ever seen her in The Lonely Lady where she plays an award winning screenwriter? Her character wins an award for re-writing the dialogue for a scene. After much fuss and many rewrites, the final dialogue was as follows:

"Why?"

[smiley=hyst.gif]

nelslus
01-23-2007, 02:32 PM
It's also the Golden Globes, which are very different from the Oscars. They'd like to think they're more important than they are. But the voting block is 93 people. And they tend to go for star turns over serious contenders. They'll nominate Beyonce. The Academy won't. Evita won for Best Picture. The Academy didn't even nominate it.

and Pia Zadora had a Golden Globe bought for her by her ex-husband was a GG winner, too.

Apparently, you have never seen Ms. Zadora's astonishing performance in "Butterfly." [smiley=bat.gif]


Have you ever seen her in The Lonely Lady where she plays an award winning screenwriter? Her character wins an award for re-writing the dialogue for a scene. After much fuss and many rewrites, the final dialogue was as follows:

"Why?"

[smiley=hyst.gif]

Not to mention in that very same film Ms. Zadora's breathless performance of "The Clapping Song."

I also forgot to mention the heartbreak invoked with Ms. Zadora's torch-song-take in "Butterfly" on that well-known classic, "It's Wrong For Me to Love You." (Ya ain't kiddin' about that, honey.)

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:08 PM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A. And while I know Craig and others have really embraced this movie (and frankly convinced me to give it a shot and see it), it really wasn't the movie to beat here in the lead-up to the nominations. Critical response has been generally positive but nothing sharply enthusiastic. Jennifer's made the most impact and it would've been a shock had she not scored a nomination, but even Eddie's wasn't a given. He's benefitted from the buzz she's created. No one here thought this movie was a guaranteed top five. I think it's lack of a best picture nomination is standing out because it was nominated for the most awards but the truth is, three of them were for song as it was a musical, so the tally is a little inflated. Sorry to those who adore this movie, but the feeling isn't 100% mutual here.

I get all that, but Babel got in, and the critics almost unanimously panned it. Dreamgirls, an audience favorite that elicited standing ovations all across the country, deserved at least a nod for BP.

And Moose, I didn't go there earlier today, but race could be a factor along with Geffen. Remember, AMPAS has awarded Black actors in the past, but not Black films. Neslus has a valid point. It doesn't have to be either/or. Laurence Mark and David Condon are beloved and I can't imagine that the David Geffen hate trumped all that love all by itself. Also, Dreamgirls had the loudest backlash as a supposed frontrunner than any film I've ever seen. That backlash has nothing to do with Geffen. People were actually ecstatic this morning on film sites that Dreamgirls didn't get the BP nod. These were the same people who said that Jennifer Hudson was nothing but a glorified and glamorous Aunt Jemima and Eddie Murphy was a coon. David Geffen has nothing to do with those sentiments.

When people who know little about the industry are calling me to ask the same question that Bea's mother asked, you have to listen.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:17 PM
Let me preface this by saying, I work in the industry here in L.A.

Then you know how Geffen is detested, Bea. Any thoughts if that was a factor in the snub?


I don't think people hate him any more than they hate any other filthy rich mogul here. I actually think Dreamgirls hurt Dreamgirls the most. The lead actress was overshadowed and the campaign for it couldn't sell it well enough. Lack of critical sound-bytes, gravitas, no Judi Dench type in sight. Also a factor, I believe, is Chicago (made by the same people). It rode a wave of buzz to an Oscar, only to be looked back at as overcooked and underdeserving soonafter.

Hmmmm.... Now there's a insight. But I ask again: How did Babel get in?

craighickman
01-23-2007, 05:26 PM
I know tennis is on, but the match is hardly worth commenting upon, so I've brought my drunk ass back to this thread.

One blogger wrote:


BEST PICTURE - The gays get the shaft again, as Dreamgirls is egregiously skipped for Letters From Iwo Jima. By choosing one racial minority over another, of course, the Academy protects itself from charges of racism. But don't be fooled...this is about loving Clint Eastwood and hating anything remotely queer (including colorful musicals).

BEST DIRECTOR - The walk of shame for Dreamgirls continues, as Bill Condon gets skipped for Eastwood again. Paul Greengrass secures the only nomination for United 93, which keeps the list from being completely insupportable.

BEST FOREIGN FILM - First Dreamgirls, now Volver gets skipped? Is there some backlash against gay directors that I'm not privy to? I mean...really.

There's an interesting perspective.

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:14 PM
It's also the Golden Globes, which are very different from the Oscars. They'd like to think they're more important than they are. But the voting block is 93 people. And they tend to go for star turns over serious contenders. They'll nominate Beyonce. The Academy won't. Evita won for Best Picture. The Academy didn't even nominate it.

and Pia Zadora had a Golden Globe bought for her by her ex-husband was a GG winner, too.

Apparently, you have never seen Ms. Zadora's astonishing performance in "Butterfly." [smiley=bat.gif]


Have you ever seen her in The Lonely Lady where she plays an award winning screenwriter? Her character wins an award for re-writing the dialogue for a scene. After much fuss and many rewrites, the final dialogue was as follows:

"Why?"

[smiley=hyst.gif]

I can trump the both of you!

Have you ever seen "Santa Claus Conquers The Martians", featuring an 8 year old Pia Zadora, in the role she was borh to play - a Martian child

Ti-Amie
01-23-2007, 06:17 PM
You guys ain't right.

catz33
01-23-2007, 06:18 PM
I just don't know why this post is here

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:21 PM
I know tennis is on, but the match is hardly worth commenting upon, so I've brought my drunk ass back to this thread.

One blogger wrote:


BEST PICTURE - The gays get the shaft again, as Dreamgirls is egregiously skipped for Letters From Iwo Jima. By choosing one racial minority over another, of course, the Academy protects itself from charges of racism. But don't be fooled...this is about loving Clint Eastwood and hating anything remotely queer (including colorful musicals).

BEST DIRECTOR - The walk of shame for Dreamgirls continues, as Bill Condon gets skipped for Eastwood again. Paul Greengrass secures the only nomination for United 93, which keeps the list from being completely insupportable.

BEST FOREIGN FILM - First Dreamgirls, now Volver gets skipped? Is there some backlash against gay directors that I'm not privy to? I mean...really.

There's an interesting perspective.


A Hispanic director was nominated...albeit a straight one.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:28 PM
I know tennis is on, but the match is hardly worth commenting upon, so I've brought my drunk ass back to this thread.

One blogger wrote:


BEST PICTURE - The gays get the shaft again, as Dreamgirls is egregiously skipped for Letters From Iwo Jima. By choosing one racial minority over another, of course, the Academy protects itself from charges of racism. But don't be fooled...this is about loving Clint Eastwood and hating anything remotely queer (including colorful musicals).

BEST DIRECTOR - The walk of shame for Dreamgirls continues, as Bill Condon gets skipped for Eastwood again. Paul Greengrass secures the only nomination for United 93, which keeps the list from being completely insupportable.

BEST FOREIGN FILM - First Dreamgirls, now Volver gets skipped? Is there some backlash against gay directors that I'm not privy to? I mean...really.

There's an interesting perspective.


A Hispanic director was nominated...albeit a straight one.

This guy's argument isn't about race at all.

Moose
01-23-2007, 06:34 PM
I know tennis is on, but the match is hardly worth commenting upon, so I've brought my drunk ass back to this thread.

One blogger wrote:


BEST PICTURE - The gays get the shaft again, as Dreamgirls is egregiously skipped for Letters From Iwo Jima. By choosing one racial minority over another, of course, the Academy protects itself from charges of racism. But don't be fooled...this is about loving Clint Eastwood and hating anything remotely queer (including colorful musicals).

BEST DIRECTOR - The walk of shame for Dreamgirls continues, as Bill Condon gets skipped for Eastwood again. Paul Greengrass secures the only nomination for United 93, which keeps the list from being completely insupportable.

BEST FOREIGN FILM - First Dreamgirls, now Volver gets skipped? Is there some backlash against gay directors that I'm not privy to? I mean...really.

There's an interesting perspective.


A Hispanic director was nominated...albeit a straight one.

This guy's argument isn't about race at all.


I know. But the author is arguing about a gay backlash in one of the most gay friendly industries there is.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 06:46 PM
I know tennis is on, but the match is hardly worth commenting upon, so I've brought my drunk ass back to this thread.

One blogger wrote:


BEST PICTURE - The gays get the shaft again, as Dreamgirls is egregiously skipped for Letters From Iwo Jima. By choosing one racial minority over another, of course, the Academy protects itself from charges of racism. But don't be fooled...this is about loving Clint Eastwood and hating anything remotely queer (including colorful musicals).

BEST DIRECTOR - The walk of shame for Dreamgirls continues, as Bill Condon gets skipped for Eastwood again. Paul Greengrass secures the only nomination for United 93, which keeps the list from being completely insupportable.

BEST FOREIGN FILM - First Dreamgirls, now Volver gets skipped? Is there some backlash against gay directors that I'm not privy to? I mean...really.

There's an interesting perspective.


A Hispanic director was nominated...albeit a straight one.

This guy's argument isn't about race at all.


I know. But the author is arguing about a gay backlash in one of the most gay friendly industries there is.


Well. The industry may be gay friendly, but when many members of AMPAS (its overall membership is still skews toward oder straight white men and the producers and directors nominate in their respective categories only) didn't even bother to see Brokeback Mountain because they thought John Wayne would roll over in his grave, he has a point.

But how gay friendly is the industry really when it still forces so many actors and actresses to remain in the closet?

I'm not saying he's right. But it's a perspective worth digesting.

Bea hit some nails on the head (Dreamgirls killed Dreamgirls - and the backlash was resounding), as did neslus.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 07:01 PM
Another insightful post on the subject at hand:


To say that labeling the acadamy racist is wrong-well, that's just wrong. It's a relevant discussion.
The Color Purple was the last African American Film to be completely snubbed after recieving the most nominations. Now we see the picture with the most nominations (somehow, several, several things about the movie must have been superb.) miss on best picture and director.
I don't even want to go back and talk about "Eve's Bayou" which was one of the best films the year it was released and was completely ignored.
In fact, if it wasn't for the white director's of the Dreamgirls & the Color Purple, I wonder if the Acadamy would have paid them ANY attention.
People keep poo-pooing any talk of racism involved in the process-yet as we saw last year when several acadamy members made homophobic remarks openingly-there is obviously another element going on.
It's worth discussing. Not pushing aside.
I suppose I can rest assured that at least the acadamy has come a long way in nominating actors of color.
I can honestly tell you, after being a fan and oscar-watcher for 40 years-if Hudson & Murphy don't win-I will never watch the awards again.
I will now resign myself to cheering on The Departed, which was second on my list. Marty better win too.
I'm sorry-but while I enjoyed little miss sunshine-it's not one of the best five of the year no matter how you slice it.
But I think it's interesting that no one wants to discuss the controversial side of race & homophobia in this process, but is open to discussing everything THEY feel is an influence.
It's time we go there.

Moose
01-23-2007, 07:02 PM
one piece of the gay backlash article that you cited that doesn't work, Craig. I had to check the rules to make sureI wasright on this.

In foreign films, only one picture from each country may be nominated. Mexico had both "Volver" and "Pan's Labyrinth".

And from everything I have read about it, "Pan's Labyrith" is not only a far better picture than "Volver", its a far better picture than almost everything nominated for Best Picture.

craighickman
01-23-2007, 07:48 PM
one piece of the gay backlash article that you cited that doesn't work, Craig. I had to check the rules to make sureI wasright on this.

In foreign films, only one picture from each country may be nominated. Mexico had both "Volver" and "Pan's Labyrinth".

And from everything I have read about it, "Pan's Labyrith" is not only a far better picture than "Volver", its a far better picture than almost everything nominated for Best Picture.

Make no mistake. I'm not positing any of this as fact. Just a point of discussion. I haven't seen Volver of Pan's so I can't say. I just thought it was interesting that someone questioned what they questioned. I didn't realize Volver was a Mexican film. I haven't paid much attention to the entire Oscar race this year. Haven't had the time. I only was recently dragged to The Queen (good piece of Masterpiece Theater, but great film? Not to me) and saw LMS on DVD as I mentioned.

There seems to be a consensus that the two best pictures of the year, Pan's Labyrinth and Children of Men, weren't even in the running because they were released too late. I'll see those before I see The Departed, Babel, or Letters from Iwo Jima.

I do find it interesting, though, that many people want to shy away from discussions about the the influence of social and cultural constructs on such a big part of culture. And like it or not, the Academy Awards is a big part of American culture.

jjnow
01-23-2007, 07:56 PM
Just to add, while I was watching BBC America the other day, the top BBC film critic ranked this year's films as follows:

5. Dreamgirls
4. The Departed
3. Babel
2. Half Nelson
1. The Queen

No surprise on the last one.

jj

Moose
01-23-2007, 08:03 PM
Just to add, while I was watching BBC America the other day, the top BBC film critic ranked this year's films as follows:

5. Dreamgirls
4. The Departed
3. Babel
2. Half Nelson
1. The Queen

No surprise on the last one.

jj

Have you seen Half Nelson, JJ? Anyone? Really a moving story. Gosling is great, but the young girl in the movie is outstanding.

nelslus
01-23-2007, 11:26 PM
one piece of the gay backlash article that you cited that doesn't work, Craig. I had to check the rules to make sureI wasright on this.

In foreign films, only one picture from each country may be nominated. Mexico had both "Volver" and "Pan's Labyrinth".

And from everything I have read about it, "Pan's Labyrith" is not only a far better picture than "Volver", its a far better picture than almost everything nominated for Best Picture.

For what this is worth, your information is incorrect, Moose. "Volver" was the official selection from Spain- not Mexico. It made the Academy's list of the 9 finalists being considered- but obviously, it did not make the list of the 5 official nominees. The following can be found on the official Academy site (also found this in a Chicago Sun-Times article):

Beverly Hills, CA — Nine films will advance in the voting process in the Foreign Language Film category for the 79th Academy Awards®. Sixty-one films had originally qualified in the category.

The films, listed in alphabetical order by country, are:

Algeria, “Days of Glory,” Rachid Bouchareb, director
Canada, “Water,” Deepa Mehta, director
Denmark, “After the Wedding,” Susanne Bier, director
France, “Avenue Montaigne,” Daniele Thompson, director
Germany, “The Lives of Others,” Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck, director
Mexico, “Pan’s Labyrinth,” Guillermo del Toro, director
The Netherlands, “Black Book,” Paul Verhoeven, director
Spain, “Volver,” Pedro Almodovar, director
Switzerland, “Vitus,” Fredi M. Murer, director

craighickman
01-23-2007, 11:30 PM
I just read a long article that suggested AMPAS voters were simply turned off by the PR machine that self-anointed Dreamgirls as the picture to beat while it was still in pre-production. It included a few off-the-record quotes, of course.

Now that's an explanation I can totally live with. Hubris goeth before the fall. I just hope Jennifer doesn't suffer from the backlash.

The SAG awards on Sunday will give a clue.

Ti-Amie
01-24-2007, 09:37 AM
Here's EW's take on who was snubbed. Interesting.

http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20007870_20007900_20009523_0,00.html?cnn=yes

bea26
01-24-2007, 09:41 AM
When people who know little about the industry are calling me to ask the same question that Bea's mother asked, you have to listen.

Oh no, I'm afraid to ask-- what did my mama ask?

bea26
01-24-2007, 09:49 AM
But I ask again: How did Babel get in?

My guess, it's international in both subject matter (4 countries) and cast (including an Oscar winning and Oscar nominated American pair), it's unrelenting (a la Crash) and it's coded and vague enough that it makes you seem smarter and more in-the-know if you 'get' it rather than risking being ignorant by questioning it (like any poem ever written). With such a weak field, it could go the distance, though if it does people will look back on it as an English Patient-like mistake.

shtexas
01-24-2007, 10:00 AM
But I ask again: How did Babel get in?

My guess, it's international in both subject matter (4 countries) and cast (including an Oscar winning and Oscar nominated American pair), it's unrelenting (a la Crash) and it's coded and vague enough that it makes you seem smarter and more in-the-know if you 'get' it rather than risking being ignorant by questioning it (like any poem ever written). With such a weak field, it could go the distance, though if it does people will look back on it as an English Patient-like mistake.

So who do you think will win at this point?

Ti-Amie
01-24-2007, 10:01 AM
But I ask again: How did Babel get in?

My guess, it's international in both subject matter (4 countries) and cast (including an Oscar winning and Oscar nominated American pair), it's unrelenting (a la Crash) and it's coded and vague enough that it makes you seem smarter and more in-the-know if you 'get' it rather than risking being ignorant by questioning it (like any poem ever written). With such a weak field, it could go the distance, though if it does people will look back on it as an English Patient-like mistake.

I saw a feature on Euronews last night that went kinda like this: "Dreamgirls" got 8 noms but three are in the song category. This makes "Babel" the movie to beat since it got 7 'legit' nominations."

Craig glad to see your opinion on "Crash" hasn't changed.

bea26
01-24-2007, 10:14 AM
But I ask again: How did Babel get in?

My guess, it's international in both subject matter (4 countries) and cast (including an Oscar winning and Oscar nominated American pair), it's unrelenting (a la Crash) and it's coded and vague enough that it makes you seem smarter and more in-the-know if you 'get' it rather than risking being ignorant by questioning it (like any poem ever written). With such a weak field, it could go the distance, though if it does people will look back on it as an English Patient-like mistake.

So who do you think will win at this point?

A lot can happen in a month. That's all it took for Miramax's trade ads to snatch Best Picture from Private Ryan to give it to Shakespeare. The Queen hasn't got a shot, it was the 5th nominee for sure. Babel has the heat, and even still Iwo Jima's somehow the important film that the intellectuals will go for. And the PGA award for Little Miss Sunshine is an interesting twist. But in the end, I think the original front-runner will return to the head of the pack and The Departed will win. Besides being a critically acclaimed film, it also made more than the other 4 nominees combined, times 10. The Academy rewards that. But again, a lot can happen in a month.

shtexas
01-24-2007, 10:23 AM
But I ask again: How did Babel get in?

My guess, it's international in both subject matter (4 countries) and cast (including an Oscar winning and Oscar nominated American pair), it's unrelenting (a la Crash) and it's coded and vague enough that it makes you seem smarter and more in-the-know if you 'get' it rather than risking being ignorant by questioning it (like any poem ever written). With such a weak field, it could go the distance, though if it does people will look back on it as an English Patient-like mistake.

So who do you think will win at this point?

A lot can happen in a month. That's all it took for Miramax's trade ads to snatch Best Picture from Private Ryan to give it to Shakespeare. The Queen hasn't got a shot, it was the 5th nominee for sure. Babel has the heat, and even still Iwo Jima's somehow the important film that the intellectuals will go for. And the PGA award for Little Miss Sunshine is an interesting twist. But in the end, I think the original front-runner will return to the head of the pack and The Departed will win. Besides being a critically acclaimed film, it also made more than the other 4 nominees combined, times 10. The Academy rewards that. But again, a lot can happen in a month.

That's why I said at this point. I was thinking The Departed too unless Letters catches fire.

bea26
01-24-2007, 12:47 PM
But I ask again: How did Babel get in?

My guess, it's international in both subject matter (4 countries) and cast (including an Oscar winning and Oscar nominated American pair), it's unrelenting (a la Crash) and it's coded and vague enough that it makes you seem smarter and more in-the-know if you 'get' it rather than risking being ignorant by questioning it (like any poem ever written). With such a weak field, it could go the distance, though if it does people will look back on it as an English Patient-like mistake.

So who do you think will win at this point?

A lot can happen in a month. That's all it took for Miramax's trade ads to snatch Best Picture from Private Ryan to give it to Shakespeare. The Queen hasn't got a shot, it was the 5th nominee for sure. Babel has the heat, and even still Iwo Jima's somehow the important film that the intellectuals will go for. And the PGA award for Little Miss Sunshine is an interesting twist. But in the end, I think the original front-runner will return to the head of the pack and The Departed will win. Besides being a critically acclaimed film, it also made more than the other 4 nominees combined, times 10. The Academy rewards that. But again, a lot can happen in a month.

That's why I said at this point. I was thinking The Departed too unless Letters catches fire.

Incidentally, I could come up with a Best Picture race that would include 5 completely different movies. Pan's Labyrinth, Stranger Than Fiction, V for Vendetta, Little Children, Notes on a Scandal. That said, still not an awesome year for movies.

Moose
01-24-2007, 12:54 PM
Incidentally, I could come up with a Best Picture race that would include 5 completely different movies. Pan's Labyrinth, Stranger Than Fiction, V for Vendetta, Little Children, Notes on a Scandal. That said, still not an awesome year for movies.

Little Children was brilliant. Too bad the characters were as unlikable as they were supposed to be.

bea26
01-24-2007, 12:55 PM
Incidentally, I could come up with a Best Picture race that would include 5 completely different movies. Pan's Labyrinth, Stranger Than Fiction, V for Vendetta, Little Children, Notes on a Scandal. That said, still not an awesome year for movies.

Little Children was brilliant. Too bad the characters were as unlikable as they were supposed to be.


At least they stirred emotion. The Queen, to me, was D.O.A.

craighickman
01-24-2007, 02:34 PM
But I ask again: How did Babel get in?

My guess, it's international in both subject matter (4 countries) and cast (including an Oscar winning and Oscar nominated American pair), it's unrelenting (a la Crash) and it's coded and vague enough that it makes you seem smarter and more in-the-know if you 'get' it rather than risking being ignorant by questioning it (like any poem ever written). With such a weak field, it could go the distance, though if it does people will look back on it as an English Patient-like mistake.

I saw a feature on Euronews last night that went kinda like this: "Dreamgirls" got 8 noms but three are in the song category. This makes "Babel" the movie to beat since it got 7 'legit' nominations."

Craig glad to see your opinion on "Crash" hasn't changed.


That's Bea's opinion.

But yes, I still think Crash was trash (and racist to boot - but that's a whole other story).

bea26
01-24-2007, 02:36 PM
But yes, I still think Crash was trash (and racist to boot - but that's a whole other story).

Mmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmm.

craighickman
01-24-2007, 02:40 PM
When people who know little about the industry are calling me to ask the same question that Bea's mother asked, you have to listen.

Oh no, I'm afraid to ask-- what did my mama ask?

"Do you think it's because it's an all-Black cast?"

bea26
01-24-2007, 02:44 PM
When people who know little about the industry are calling me to ask the same question that Bea's mother asked, you have to listen.

Oh no, I'm afraid to ask-- what did my mama ask?

"Do you think it's because it's an all-Black cast?"

You might be thinkin' of someone else's mama.

craighickman
01-24-2007, 02:48 PM
When people who know little about the industry are calling me to ask the same question that Bea's mother asked, you have to listen.

Oh no, I'm afraid to ask-- what did my mama ask?

"Do you think it's because it's an all-Black cast?"

You might be thinkin' of someone else's mama.

Ah. Yes. That would be shtexas' mama.

bea26
01-24-2007, 02:50 PM
When people who know little about the industry are calling me to ask the same question that Bea's mother asked, you have to listen.

Oh no, I'm afraid to ask-- what did my mama ask?

"Do you think it's because it's an all-Black cast?"

You might be thinkin' of someone else's mama.

Ah. Yes. That would be shtexas' mama.

Aton and I haven't figured out who my mama is just yet.

shtexas
02-23-2007, 07:50 AM
I heard the awards on Sunday are going to be in a different order than usual. They are going to hold the supporting acting awards until the final third of the show.

shtexas
02-24-2007, 07:12 AM
I heard the awards on Sunday are going to be in a different order than usual. They are going to hold the supporting acting awards until the final third of the show.

Now I read this bit of info was wrong. They are not bumping the supporting acting awards to the final 1/3 of the show.

oploskoffie
02-24-2007, 03:00 PM
My nephew is lending me his digital cable box for a few days. I get to watch the Oscars live ;D Yay!

jjnow
02-25-2007, 11:21 AM
Okay my peoples, I'll expect you all to be here tonight.

!Que emocionante!

jj

oploskoffie
02-25-2007, 11:30 AM
I'll be here, regardless of the timediff ;D We'll be doing a small Oscar TAThering as well ;)

jjnow
02-25-2007, 11:39 AM
I'll be here, regardless of the timediff ;D We'll be doing a small Oscar TAThering as well ;)
Best to take a nap now, Mr. O.

jj

oploskoffie
02-25-2007, 11:40 AM
I'll be here, regardless of the timediff ;D We'll be doing a small Oscar TAThering as well ;)
Best to take a nap now, Mr. O.

jj

jj, you know me... I don't sleep ;D

Louche
02-25-2007, 12:49 PM
Little Miss Sunshine won the French "Oscar," the Cesar. :-?

mmmm8
02-25-2007, 01:35 PM
Little Miss Sunshine won the French "Oscar," the Cesar. :-?


For best foreign film.


Don't tell anyone, but I don't think Lady Catterley is getting a best picture oscar tonight.

oploskoffie
02-25-2007, 02:04 PM
Watching E! at the moment in the buildup to the show. I still don't get Wahlberg's nomination. I thought he did better in Four Brothers, truth be told.

mmmm8
02-25-2007, 02:27 PM
Watching E! at the moment in the buildup to the show. I still don't get Wahlberg's nomination. I thought he did better in Four Brothers, truth be told.


I hadn't seen Four Brothers, but I thought his performance was excellent and his character difficult to pull off without looking comic. But I think he had too little screen time to get a nom.

But then, you are the one that thinks Meryl Streep should win, right? ;)

shtexas
02-25-2007, 02:31 PM
I thought Wahlberg was great. Every moment he was on screen was pitch-perfect. It was a small role that he nailed. Arkin's was also a small role. In his case, it seemed bigger than it was.

oploskoffie
02-25-2007, 02:41 PM
Watching E! at the moment in the buildup to the show. I still don't get Wahlberg's nomination. I thought he did better in Four Brothers, truth be told.

I hadn't seen Four Brothers, but I thought his performance was excellent and his character difficult to pull off without looking comic. But I think he had too little screen time to get a nom.

But then, you are the one that thinks Meryl Streep should win, right?

I've seen several of Wahlbergs films, and while shtexas is right about him being spot-on during his scenes, it just didn't strike me as his most challenging role yet. I believe he's done better. As for Meryl... I didn't think she should win, but I will say she COULD win, though it's very unlikely. I'm just grateful that it's a strong group of contenders, though I have yet to see Winslet's Little Children out of those nominations.

mmmm8
02-25-2007, 02:43 PM
Watching E! at the moment in the buildup to the show. I still don't get Wahlberg's nomination. I thought he did better in Four Brothers, truth be told.

I hadn't seen Four Brothers, but I thought his performance was excellent and his character difficult to pull off without looking comic. But I think he had too little screen time to get a nom.

But then, you are the one that thinks Meryl Streep should win, right?

I've seen several of Wahlbergs films, and while shtexas is right about him being spot-on during his scenes, it just didn't strike me as his most challenging role yet. I believe he's done better. As for Meryl... I didn't think she should win, but I will say she COULD win, though it's very unlikely. I'm just grateful that it's a strong group of contenders, though I have yet to see Winslet's Little Children out of those nominations.

Sorry, someone picked Meryl in predictions, I thought it was you.

Haven't seen Little Children either, but I've heard only good things.

mmmm8
02-25-2007, 03:35 PM
I've turned the channel to E! I'm ready.

It's been so long since I've seen Elizabeth Shue anywhere. Speaking of disappearing acts, Jodie Foster's haircut looks nice, she looks really young.

Good to see Garcia-Bernal and Luna are still best buds. They are like the Mexican Matt Damon/Ben Affleck.

I wish all the E! people would disappear though,

oploskoffie
02-25-2007, 03:37 PM
I've turned the channel to E! I'm ready.

It's been so long since I've seen Elizabeth Shue anywhere. Speaking of disappearing acts, Jodie Foster's haircut looks nice, she looks really young.

Good to see Garcia-Bernal and Luna are still best buds. They are like the Mexican Matt Damon/Ben Affleck.

I wish all the E! people would disappear though,

The E! people irritate me ;D They were talking about women wearing Spank earlier :(

Oh, and Jodie F was looking nice, though the dress, I thought, was so/so.

mmmm8
02-25-2007, 03:39 PM
I've turned the channel to E! I'm ready.

It's been so long since I've seen Elizabeth Shue anywhere. Speaking of disappearing acts, Jodie Foster's haircut looks nice, she looks really young.

Good to see Garcia-Bernal and Luna are still best buds. They are like the Mexican Matt Damon/Ben Affleck.

I wish all the E! people would disappear though,

The E! people irritate me ;D They were talking about women wearing Spank earlier :(

Oh, and Jodie F was looking nice, though the dress, I thought, was so/so.


I only saw the face.

And, oh no, Jennifer Hudson is wearing a hideous shiny jacket (didn't see the dress). Vince Spadea is not the right person to get fashion tips from

Ryan Seacrest should just stop talking. And touching Rinko Kikuchi

jjnow
02-25-2007, 03:52 PM
Seacrest annoys me to know end.

jj

oploskoffie
02-25-2007, 03:59 PM
Seeing John T. and Kelly P. brings me back to the question of how many people on the carpet are scientologists.

AmonRa777
02-26-2007, 05:34 AM
I didn't get to watch the entire show...But i was thrilled to see Martin Scorsese and Jennifer Hudson win....The irony of the Scorsese win is after getting flat out screwed with "Raging Bull" and "Goodfello's", he wins for "Departed"...Departed and Dreamgirls were the only nominated films i got to see...Departed had a great cast...But it was far from Scorsese's best...Nonetheless he was long overdue and is still owed 2 or 3 more Oscar's by the Academy...

Jennifer Hudson was brilliant and deservd her award...IMHO her choice was a slam dunk...Its a disgrace that "dreamgirls" didn't get a best picture nomination

I didn't see the film Forrest Whitaker won for...But he has been deserving in the past...Some of his best performances were not even nominated...But he has long been one of Hollywoods best actors

shtexas
02-26-2007, 07:51 AM
I didn't get to watch the entire show...But i was thrilled to see Martin Scorsese and Jennifer Hudson win....The irony of the Scorsese win is after getting flat out screwed with "Raging Bull" and "Goodfello's", he wins for "Departed"...Departed and Dreamgirls were the only nominated films i got to see...Departed had a great cast...But it was far from Scorsese's best...Nonetheless he was long overdue and is still owed 2 or 3 more Oscar's by the Academy...

Jennifer Hudson was brilliant and deservd her award...IMHO her choice was a slam dunk...Its a disgrace that "dreamgirls" didn't get a best picture nomination

I didn't see the film Forrest Whitaker won for...But he has been deserving in the past...Some of his best performances were not even nominated...But he has long been one of Hollywoods best actors

The way I see it, there was no masterpiece this year. The Departed may not have been Scorsese's best, but it was good enough. I think among best picture winners, it will rank somewhere in the middle of the pack.

GVGirl
02-26-2007, 08:00 AM
It was "Share the Wealth" night!

I knew that Murphy would not win becasue there is always someone in a supporting category who is a shoo- in and loses. Also, Norbitt did not help since it came out during the academy voting. Arkin had been nominated a couple of times before I was born, so he probably got some nostalgia votes. I loved Dreamgirls, but everytime I saw Murphy I kept thinking of a cross between his character from SNL- Velvet Jones and his James Brown imitations.