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Kirkus
07-27-2006, 03:02 PM
Landis says he didn't dope during Tour de France

Full Story (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html?cnn=yes)


I'm sorry, but are we facing an epidemic?

Darcy
07-27-2006, 03:10 PM
I really don't know. I certainly would appreciate a little more integrity and clarity on the very complex issue of "doping" and the testing that is done (and very often leaked to the press). It seems to me that it's a lot easier to be smeared by allegations than it is to defend against them.

If he did have artificial help, he should be stripped of the title. But where does he go to get his reputation back if he didn't?

Sebastien447
07-27-2006, 04:12 PM
The French are convinced that any American that wins the Tour has to be juicing or doping.

Doll_Face
07-28-2006, 05:44 AM
The French are convinced that any American that wins the Tour has to be juicing or doping.


Too bad he stumbled when answering "ahhh,, no I didn't"! ::)

That's ashame!



I didn't know I was brought back to life ===== >>> [smiley=gorgeous.gif]

:-?

Kirkus
07-28-2006, 08:13 AM
I didn't know I was brought back to life ===== >>> [smiley=gorgeous.gif]

:-?

Yeah. We had a server crash a few weeks back and everything got reinstalled from a backup. I left it cause your posts just don't look right without it.

Danielle
07-28-2006, 10:26 AM
Professing my ignorance here...can someone explain to me how do these doping tests are supposed to work? I mean, I'm reading an article this morning where Landis states he has naturally high levels of testosterone. Wouldn't this have shown up in earlier tests - why did it suddenly elevate for this test?

I don't mean to suggest he's guilty in any way, I'm just curious how this is supposed to work. Because whether he did or he didn't, something doesn't seem to be working. I'm with Darcy, a little more clarity on this would be helpful.

(Every time this doping issue comes up, I flashback to this time I was working at a natural foods co-op. We had these "cleansing" products in our supplements section and every time a customer bought one, we knew they were going for a drug test the next day.)

sblanc
07-28-2006, 01:33 PM
I really wish everybody would stop being so hypocritical about the doping on the Tour.
Come on, there is no way that you can do 200 kms a day for 4 days a week, during one month, averaging a 40 k/hour, uphill, down hill with the temperatures something like 30° in the shade without some kind of artificial assistance. NO WAY!
What really pissed me off, was when they accused Lance Amstrong of doping. The man is a hero. What was the point in taking him down? The tour actually shot itself in the foot with that one. Nitwits.
And I dont even like cycling. Its about as interesting as watching paint dry. Still some things as sacred.

Darcy
07-28-2006, 01:43 PM
I really wish everybody would stop being so hypocritical about the doping on the Tour.
Come on, there is no way that you can do 200 kms a day for 4 days a week, during one month, averaging a 40 k/hour, uphill, down hill with the temperatures something like 30° in the shade without some kind of artificial assistance. NO WAY!
What really pissed me off, was when they accused Lance Amstrong of doping. The man is a hero. What was the point in taking him down? The tour actually shot itself in the foot with that one. Nitwits.
And I dont even like cycling. Its about as interesting as watching paint dry. Still some things as sacred.



Forgive me, but I don't understand this post. What is hypocritical? I just believe that you should play by the rules in any sport. That's what I meant by "artificial" help. Perhaps you were referring to the media?

sblanc
07-28-2006, 02:08 PM
I really wish everybody would stop being so hypocritical about the doping on the Tour.
Come on, there is no way that you can do 200 kms a day for 4 days a week, during one month, averaging a 40 k/hour, uphill, down hill with the temperatures something like 30° in the shade without some kind of artificial assistance. NO WAY!
What really pissed me off, was when they accused Lance Amstrong of doping. The man is a hero. What was the point in taking him down? The tour actually shot itself in the foot with that one. Nitwits.
And I dont even like cycling. Its about as interesting as watching paint dry. Still some things as sacred.



Forgive me, but I don't understand this post. What is hypocritical? I just believe that you should play by the rules in any sport. That's what I meant by "artificial" help. Perhaps you were referring to the media?

Nah, what I ment was that everybody knows that all the guys on the tour are doped right up to their eyeballs or as in the Landis case the "balls"- tout court. Its just a question of outsmarting the tests. So why not just admit it and take it from there.

Darcy
07-28-2006, 02:13 PM
Nah, what I ment was that everybody knows that all the guys on the tour are doped right up to their eyeballs or as in the Landis case the "balls"- tout court. Its just a question of outsmarting the tests. So why not just admit it and take it from there.


Gotcha, thanks! That was the rumor for sure, especially in light of the Spanish doctor's office raid.

You don't think that Lance was doping? I have no idea, but I'm curious to know if you don't think he was, why do you think everyone else pretty much is. I'm just curious, not trying to be argumentative.

Kirkus
07-28-2006, 06:03 PM
I'm a little confused, sblanc. :-?

On one hand you say there's no way riders can do what they do without some kind of artificial assitance. Then you call Lance Armstrong a hero. If what you say is true, then Lance the Hero was also juiced up.

I have a very black and white position where cheating is concerned. If it can be proved that a professional athelete used performance enhancing drugs... even one time... they should be stripped of every award or record they've ever received and they should be banned permanently from all professional sports. Perhaps even made to repay some or all of the money they've made during their professional career. Period.

In addition, I think it falls on the athelete to know what is being put into his body. I don't buy the, "my trainer was giving me some dietary supplements and that must have been where the illegal substance came from and so it's not my fault." Excuse my language, but that's just bullshit. You're the athelete, it's your body, and it's your responsibility.

The jury's still out on Landis. But if it's proven true, then I see him as nothing but a cheater.

sblanc
07-30-2006, 08:14 AM
I'm a little confused, sblanc. :-?

On one hand you say there's no way riders can do what they do without some kind of artificial assitance. Then you call Lance Armstrong a hero. If what you say is true, then Lance the Hero was also juiced up.

I have a very black and white position where cheating is concerned. If it can be proved that a professional athelete used performance enhancing drugs... even one time... they should be stripped of every award or record they've ever received and they should be banned permanently from all professional sports. Perhaps even made to repay some or all of the money they've made during their professional career. Period.

In addition, I think it falls on the athelete to know what is being put into his body. I don't buy the, "my trainer was giving me some dietary supplements and that must have been where the illegal substance came from and so it's not my fault." Excuse my language, but that's just bullshit. You're the athelete, it's your body, and it's your responsibility.

The jury's still out on Landis. But if it's proven true, then I see him as nothing but a cheater.



All things being equal, i.e all the runners on the tour were/are using some kind of performance enhancing drugs, I think that what Lance Armstrong achieved was exceptional. Maybe he had some help, don't change anything for me, he's still my hero. When I like somebody its for life, warts and all - that what being a fan is about innit ? Hope that answers your curiosity Darcy.

And Kirkus nothing in life is black or white, its all varying shades of grey. As much as I like the idea of all sportsmen being squeaky clean and winning on merit alone, reality tells me it wont happen. There is so much money involved in sport today, that everybody is looking for some way to cheat. Its no reason to accept it, but I think we need to face the facts, change some rules about whats allowed, less money, I dont know I'm no expert. But human nature being what it is, man will always look for some way to get around the rules. Thats a part of the sport.
I remember being amazed when playing this very amateur, club level tournement, when my opponent took a sip of coke every time we changed sides. For me that was doping - she was artificially getting her caffein levels up. But no big deal right. I beat her anyway Hah!
But joking aside - We need more tolerence in this world at all levels. Voil*. End of sermon. Go in peace.

Kirkus
08-05-2006, 01:28 PM
Proof positive
2nd test matches first; Tour shuns Landis as champ

Full Story (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/08/05/landis.positive.ap/index.html)

shtexas
08-05-2006, 02:06 PM
I'm sure he'll come up with excuse number...what are we up to now?

6?

7?

Kirkus
08-05-2006, 02:12 PM
I've always been fond of the "my coach gave me a supplement..."

I think the whole thing is pretty pathetic.

Kirkus
08-05-2006, 02:18 PM
Landis again denied cheating.

"I have never taken any banned substance, including testosterone," he said in a statement. "I was the strongest man at the Tour de France, and that is why I am the champion.


Uh huh. Okay.

Louche
08-05-2006, 02:43 PM
I've been reading the comments on a cycling message board and some of the posters are accusing the French lab. of falsifying the results and/or contaminating the samples.

That sounds too incredible to be true...doesn't it?

Kirkus
08-05-2006, 02:46 PM
I don't buy it. Sounds like some don't want to believe the doping charges and are grasping at anything.

I can't imagine that a lab would falsify tests that would affect such a world-wide meda-focused event.

Darcy
08-05-2006, 04:15 PM
I don't trust the French labs either, but I agree it's a stretch to think that they tampered with the samples.

I read that a rumor is going around that Landis did not take a synthetic substance during the race. The rumor is that he is a blood doper, using his own stored blood to boost his red cell count. He allegedly used a bag of blood that contained a synthetic substance that he was using at the time the blood was drawn. Stupid, and a cheat either way though. ::)

I wish I could find a way to believe this guy, but at this point I can't.

cphsrsh
08-05-2006, 09:28 PM
I think either a) the French are absolutely, positively out to kill the American cycling generation or b) Floyd was/is/will be a desperate man hoping to claim a significant, historical title that is wrongfully his. It's a bit disheartening in either case.

Louche
08-07-2006, 07:10 AM
Landis believes that cycling and the WADA have an "agenda."

Floyd is beginning to sound more and more like he's the victim. This mess will not be over for months.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

"I've been catching a lot of grief in the press: 'Floyd has a new excuse, a new reason for what happened,' " he said. "This is a situation where I'm forced to defend myself in the media. It would never have happened if UCI and WADA had followed their own rules."

Landis said there's "zero chance" someone on the Phonak team gave him testosterone -- either by accident or on purpose. But he didn't discount some kind of conspiracy by the UCI or WADA.

"There's some kind of agenda there," he told USA Today. "I just don't know what it is."
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2541883

Louche
08-15-2006, 12:12 PM
The owner of the Phonak team has given up. No mas for him - couldn't even sell it.

temper27
08-17-2006, 08:18 PM
Landis says he didn't dope during Tour de France

Full Story (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html?cnn=yes)


I'm sorry, but are we facing an epidemic?

You dont know if he really cheated or not so stop being an accusatory.

oploskoffie
09-13-2006, 04:26 PM
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1593/getfuzzylandistp8.jpg

neka
09-14-2006, 12:23 AM
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1593/getfuzzylandistp8.jpg

Good one oplos!