PDA

View Full Version : LPGA Says Speak English or Go Home



Ti-Amie
08-28-2008, 03:07 PM
L.P.G.A. Is Facing Comprehension Issue

By LARRY DORMAN
NORTON, Mass. — Padraig Harrington (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/padraig_harrington/index.html?inline=nyt-per) was eating breakfast at his hotel Wednesday morning when he was interrupted by someone wanting to know if he had heard about the Ladies Professional Golf Association’s language policy calling for the suspensions of players unable to speak passable English by the end of 2009.
(...)
Libba Galloway, the deputy commissioner of the L.P.G.A., took great pains Tuesday to make the point that no group from within the 120 international players on tour was singled out. But convincing the public of that could have been made more difficult when all 45 South Korean golfers on the tour attended a mandatory meeting to discuss the policy at last week’s L.P.G.A. stop.
(...)
The organization insisted the purpose of its language policy is to help players maximize their earning power and promote the tour at the same time. To do this, officials believe, a player must speak English. The threat of a player being suspended — which Galloway has said she hope and believes will never be necessary — is the sticking point.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/sports/golf/28golf.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&ref=sports&pagewanted=print

mrjiggyfly2
08-28-2008, 03:46 PM
As long as they're given enough time, I'm all for it. I do think it will help the tour.

munchin
08-28-2008, 04:37 PM
I think this is absurd. Learning a language after the age of 6 or 7 is a tremendous undertaking (especially English). The effort it will require will almost certainly drain the amount of time they have to practice and train for their actual job. Doesn't seem fair to me. I'm sure I believe this will help the tour all that much either. They've received a lot of negative publicity about this so far from the sports op-eds. Ideally, the players would be able to be fluent in the languages of all the places where the tour is most popular but to threaten suspension is way over the line to me. I think this was just the wrong move.

rabbit
08-28-2008, 04:52 PM
I guess it depends on the level of fluency they want. If the goal is that players can speak just enough to communicate basic answers, I think it's ok. But it's not reasonable to expect fluency better than, say, Tsonga or the Nadal of 2004.

suliso
08-28-2008, 05:09 PM
I guess it depends on the level of fluency they want. If the goal is that players can speak just enough to communicate basic answers, I think it's ok. But it's not reasonable to expect fluency better than, say, Tsonga or the Nadal of 2004.

I think they do expect a bit better than that. After all, unlike Tsonga or Nadal, most of these players have lived in US for several years already.

mrjiggyfly2
08-28-2008, 06:08 PM
I think this is absurd. Learning a language after the age of 6 or 7 is a tremendous undertaking (especially English). The effort it will require will almost certainly drain the amount of time they have to practice and train for their actual job. Doesn't seem fair to me. I'm sure I believe this will help the tour all that much either. They've received a lot of negative publicity about this so far from the sports op-eds. Ideally, the players would be able to be fluent in the languages of all the places where the tour is most popular but to threaten suspension is way over the line to me. I think this was just the wrong move.

I don't see how, if you make a living in this country, that being required to learn English is unfair. If I made my money in France, and they told me I had to learn French or face suspension, I'd completely understand. If I didn't like it, I could leave.

Time for Rosetta Stone ladies.

Kirkus
08-28-2008, 06:26 PM
Since the LPGA hasn't even finished the final language, I think the outrage being heard is a little premature. Let's wait until we see exactly what it is the LPGA wants to do.

On the surface, however, this line, "The organization insisted the purpose of its language policy is to help players maximize their earning power"..., in my opinion, is ridiculous. Have the golfers asked the organization to maximize their earning power?

Personally, I think it's wrong to ask any athlete from any sport to do this. The language they speak has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to understand and play the game. It's the LPGA's responsibility to "promote the tour" not to insist that player's perform a difficult, unrelated, life-changing task to "promote the sport". It's akin, in my opinion, to insisting that all players must dye their hair blond because the LPGA believes the players will be more photogenic if they have blond hair..

oohsalmon
08-28-2008, 06:32 PM
Personally, I think it's wrong to ask any athlete from any sport to do this. The language they speak has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to understand and play the game. It's the LPGA's responsibility to "promote the tour" not to insist that player's perform a difficult, unrelated, life-changing task to "promote the sport". It's akin, in my opinion, to insisting that all players must dye their hair blond because the LPGA believes the players will be more photogenic if they have blond hair..

I disagree.

One of the cornerstones of golf is Pro-Ams, where rich sponsors play alongside players, and are supposed to mingle.

Secondly, playing on the LPGA tour is not an inalienable right. It's a job, like any other, and the employer should be able to set reasonable conditions for what he is looking for in an employee.

Thirdly, if there's a Korean player who wins a tournament and then can't say a word to the local media about her victory...that's a mess.

Players are the face of the sport, and have publicity obligations therefore that they are well compensated for with prize money and sponsorships. Every tennis player makes some effort to learn English for those reasons. It's an unwritten rule in tennis, and I have no problem with it being a written rule in golf.

mrjiggyfly2
08-28-2008, 06:35 PM
I disagree.

One of the cornerstones of golf is Pro-Ams, where rich sponsors play alongside players, and are supposed to mingle.

Secondly, playing on the LPGA tour is not an inalienable right. It's a job, like any other, and the employer should be able to set reasonable conditions for what he is looking for in an employee.

Thirdly, if there's a Korean player who wins a tournament and then can't say a word to the local media about her victory...that's a mess.

Players are the face of the sport, and have publicity obligations therefore that they are well compensated for with prize money and sponsorships. Every tennis player makes some effort to learn English for those reasons. It's an unwritten rule in tennis, and I have no problem with it being a written rule in golf.


mr. salmon.....brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!

mwoods
08-28-2008, 06:36 PM
I can't decide how I feel about this because I can't get over the huge irony that Americans are insisting that someone know more than one language.

Reminds me of the old joke:

What's it called if you speak two languages? Bilingual.

What's it called if you speak three languages? Trilingual.

What's it called if you speak one language? American.

mrjiggyfly2
08-28-2008, 06:38 PM
Since the LPGA hasn't even finished the final language, I think the outrage being heard is a little premature. Let's wait until we see exactly what it is the LPGA wants to do.

On the surface, however, this line, "The organization insisted the purpose of its language policy is to help players maximize their earning power"..., in my opinion, is ridiculous. Have the golfers asked the organization to maximize their earning power?

Personally, I think it's wrong to ask any athlete from any sport to do this. The language they speak has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to understand and play the game. It's the LPGA's responsibility to "promote the tour" not to insist that player's perform a difficult, unrelated, life-changing task to "promote the sport". It's akin, in my opinion, to insisting that all players must dye their hair blond because the LPGA believes the players will be more photogenic if they have blond hair..

The LPGA is full of shit about "players maximizing their earning power." It's about gaining interest for the tour and gaining sponsorship

mrjiggyfly2
08-28-2008, 06:46 PM
I can't decide how I feel about this because I can't get over the huge irony that Americans are insisting that someone know more than one language.

Reminds me of the old joke:

What's it called if you speak two languages? Bilingual.

What's it called if you speak three languages? Trilingual.

What's it called if you speak one language? American.

Yup--It's very uncool

suliso
08-28-2008, 06:47 PM
The LPGA is full of shit about "players maximizing their earning power." It's about gaining interest for the tour and gaining sponsorship

It's all about sponsorships (+ a bit of xenophobia) - folks watching on TV or on the course don't care about pro-ams or interviews...

munchin
08-28-2008, 08:17 PM
I don't see how, if you make a living in this country, that being required to learn English is unfair. If I made my money in France, and they told me I had to learn French or face suspension, I'd completely understand. If I didn't like it, I could leave.

Time for Rosetta Stone ladies.

I'd completely understand too...if speaking the language had a direct effect on my ability to do the job correctly. Forcing a bunch of players to spend their valuable time learning to speak what will certainly be halting English (at least for a number of years)...I just don't believe it will be a solution for anything, but I will agree to temper my indignance until the details of the "arrangement" come to light.

dryrunguy
08-28-2008, 08:56 PM
And all this time, I though professional golf was an international sport! Who knew?!?!?!?!?

bea26
08-28-2008, 09:24 PM
Isn't this TAT's policy as well?

oohsalmon
08-28-2008, 09:29 PM
And all this time, I though professional golf was an international sport! Who knew?!?!?!?!?

Barely. The LPGA only has five events in non-English speaking countries, by my count. Three of those in Mexico.

suliso
08-28-2008, 09:33 PM
Barely. The LPGA only has five events in non-English speaking countries, by my count. Three of those in Mexico.

I counted seven (3 in Mexico and 1 each in Korea, Japan, China and France), not that it makes a big difference...

Jack
08-28-2008, 09:35 PM
Isn't this TAT's policy as well?

Oui.

oohsalmon
08-28-2008, 09:37 PM
I counted seven (3 in Mexico and 1 each in Korea, Japan, China and France), not that it makes a big difference...

China and France aren't English speaking countries?

Oh. :o

sportfan92
08-29-2008, 09:23 AM
I disagree.

One of the cornerstones of golf is Pro-Ams, where rich sponsors play alongside players, and are supposed to mingle.

Secondly, playing on the LPGA tour is not an inalienable right. It's a job, like any other, and the employer should be able to set reasonable conditions for what he is looking for in an employee.

Thirdly, if there's a Korean player who wins a tournament and then can't say a word to the local media about her victory...that's a mess.

Players are the face of the sport, and have publicity obligations therefore that they are well compensated for with prize money and sponsorships. Every tennis player makes some effort to learn English for those reasons. It's an unwritten rule in tennis, and I have no problem with it being a written rule in golf.

Well how does that exactly belong to this topic though? You don't see David Stern asking poor English speaking players to leave NBA.

I mean LPGA is for players to play golf, not to communicate with the reporters. They can always use the translators for that anyway.

LPGA is for all international players thus, not encouraging but requiring them, is going overboard. Should players learn Korean too for the time event is held in Korea?

Miles
08-29-2008, 10:01 AM
Oh gosh, this thread is just a minefield, but here goes....


I think this is absurd. Learning a language after the age of 6 or 7 is a tremendous undertaking (especially English). The effort it will require will almost certainly drain the amount of time they have to practice and train for their actual job.

I began learning English at about age eight. Can't you tell by how well I spell. ;)


I don't see how, if you make a living in this country, that being required to learn English is unfair. If I made my money in France, and they told me I had to learn French or face suspension, I'd completely understand. If I didn't like it, I could leave.

As an immigrant American, I completely agree. In fact, if I worked in France, I wouldn't need legislation from my employer to learn French, I'd go out on my own and learn it.


Personally, I think it's wrong to ask any athlete from any sport to do this. The language they speak has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to understand and play the game. It's the LPGA's responsibility to "promote the tour" not to insist that player's perform a difficult, unrelated, life-changing task to "promote the sport".

You say this because the WTA does such a fantastic job in promoting women's tennis. On more than one occasion we have discussed on TAT that Sharapova will always have greater earning power over Ivanovic (assuming their beauty is equal) because she speaks fluent English. So the economic argument actually makes sense to me.

At the end of the day, charismatic players (Tiger Woods, Andre Agassi, Venus & Serena, Jordan) grow the game and the LPGA is just trying to stack the deck in the favor of that happening.


One of the cornerstones of golf is Pro-Ams, where rich sponsors play alongside players, and are supposed to mingle.

Secondly, playing on the LPGA tour is not an inalienable right. It's a job, like any other, and the employer should be able to set reasonable conditions for what he is looking for in an employee.

Thirdly, if there's a Korean player who wins a tournament and then can't say a word to the local media about her victory...that's a mess.

Players are the face of the sport, and have publicity obligations therefore that they are well compensated for with prize money and sponsorships. Every tennis player makes some effort to learn English for those reasons. It's an unwritten rule in tennis, and I have no problem with it being a written rule in golf.

Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed. Also, how often do we mock the sponsorship people when they can't even pronounce the winner's name accurately.


I can't decide how I feel about this because I can't get over the huge irony that Americans are insisting that someone know more than one language.

A bit misleading. The LPGA is asking its players to learn the language of their most significant (and it seems the only one) playing market. Not unreasonable by any measure.


It's all about sponsorships (+ a bit of xenophobia) - folks watching on TV or on the course don't care about pro-ams or interviews...

Really, as a tennis fan, you don't care about player interviews? They don't add to your overall enjoyment of the sport? :rolleyes:


I'd completely understand too...if speaking the language had a direct effect on my ability to do the job correctly.

A professional athlete's job in this country does not end when they leave the court. That is why we have mandatory press conferences, sponsor parties, etc. They all exist to grow the game, and if the game grows, it enriches the players with greater prize money, sponsorship opportunities, etc.

munchin
08-29-2008, 10:13 AM
You say this because the WTA does such a fantastic job in promoting women's tennis. On more than one occasion we have discussed on TAT that Sharapova will always have greater earning power over Ivanovic (assuming their beauty is equal) because she speaks fluent English. So the economic argument actually makes sense to me.

At the end of the day, charismatic players (Tiger Woods, Andre Agassi, Venus & Serena, Jordan) grow the game and the LPGA is just trying to stack the deck in the favor of that happening.

Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed. Also, how often do we mock the sponsorship people when they can't even pronounce the winner's name accurately.

A bit misleading. The LPGA is asking its players to learn the language of their most significant (and it seems the only one) playing market. Not unreasonable by any measure.

Really, as a tennis fan, you don't care about player interviews? They don't add to your overall enjoyment of the sport? :rolleyes:

A professional athlete's job in this country does not end when they leave the court. That is why we have mandatory press conferences, sponsor parties, etc. They all exist to grow the game, and if the game grows, it enriches the players with greater prize money, sponsorship opportunities, etc.

My biggest reservation is that they aren't really "asking" the players to learn English. They're sorta demanding it. Yes, there are economic advantages for the players to do so and they should aboslutely be encouraged to do so because of the potential benefits for all involved but it should completely be their choice. If the players want to be enriched with greater prize money and sponsorship, then learning English is a logical stepping stone to that, but I don't like it being forced on them. If they want to risk marginalizing their own popularity because they think their golf will suffer from the commitment then it should be their choice. If they have a compelling enough personality or aura or "je ne sais quoi", though, a lot of people just won't care. I live in Seattle. Ichiro is one of the most popular athletes in the city's history and his English isn't very good. It's definitely possible. I just wish they would promote the personalities they have, make them interesting on their own. People who are interested won't really care about their language. This ultimatum feels wrong to me. I still await further details.

suliso
08-29-2008, 10:16 AM
Really, as a tennis fan, you don't care about player interviews? They don't add to your overall enjoyment of the sport? :rolleyes:

I do, but I try not to judge them by their English skills :rolleyes:

Besides for all practical purposes virtually all of them are fluent. As for Maria-Ana, we were talking about accent less English - that's impossible to achieve unless you grow up in English speaking environment...


Certain elements in LPGA feel that there are too many Asians (ca 1/3 now) coming over here and this is not so subtle attempt to address that "problem"...

Miles
08-29-2008, 10:22 AM
Certain elements in LPGA feel that there are too many Asians (ca 1/3 now) coming over here and this is not so subtle attempt to address that "problem"...

If this is true, it's altogether a different matter, and goes against all of our discrimination laws.

Miles
08-29-2008, 10:47 AM
My biggest reservation is that they aren't really "asking" the players to learn English. They're sorta demanding it. Yes, there are economic advantages for the players to do so and they should aboslutely be encouraged to do so because of the potential benefits for all involved but it should completely be their choice. If the players want to be enriched with greater prize money and sponsorship, then learning English is a logical stepping stone to that, but I don't like it being forced on them. If they want to risk marginalizing their own popularity because they think their golf will suffer from the commitment then it should be their choice. If they have a compelling enough personality or aura or "je ne sais quoi", though, a lot of people just won't care. I live in Seattle. Ichiro is one of the most popular athletes in the city's history and his English isn't very good. It's definitely possible. I just wish they would promote the personalities they have, make them interesting on their own. People who are interested won't really care about their language. This ultimatum feels wrong to me. I still await further details.

munchin -- I absolutely agree with you in principle, but look at the WTA. They had to mandate that their player show up at the Tier 1 events. Why? Because so many were not taking their obligation to the sport seriously and it was hurting the game.

Perhaps the LPGA (and I could be oh so wrong on this) has already encouraged its players to learn English, and the players simply have shown little interest in doing so.

sportfan92
08-29-2008, 08:52 PM
My biggest reservation is that they aren't really "asking" the players to learn English. They're sorta demanding it. Yes, there are economic advantages for the players to do so and they should aboslutely be encouraged to do so because of the potential benefits for all involved but it should completely be their choice. If the players want to be enriched with greater prize money and sponsorship, then learning English is a logical stepping stone to that, but I don't like it being forced on them. If they want to risk marginalizing their own popularity because they think their golf will suffer from the commitment then it should be their choice. If they have a compelling enough personality or aura or "je ne sais quoi", though, a lot of people just won't care. I live in Seattle. Ichiro is one of the most popular athletes in the city's history and his English isn't very good. It's definitely possible. I just wish they would promote the personalities they have, make them interesting on their own. People who are interested won't really care about their language. This ultimatum feels wrong to me. I still await further details.

I agree. I wouldn't mind encouraging but requiring? absolutely one of the stupidest rules in sports ever. You don't see this in MLB, NBA or NFL so why golf? Are they that desperate to enhance the popularity of women's golf?

If you don't speak much English, you lose the chance for sponsorship and popularity but it only hurts your case. That doesn't mean you have to force players to speak the language you demand.

oohsalmon
08-29-2008, 08:55 PM
Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed.

See, people, THIS is the response y'all should ALWAYS have to my posts :cheesy:.

mrjiggyfly2
08-29-2008, 09:01 PM
Great job LPGA Tour. I know that I would be much more apt to watch if some more of the top players spoke English. If they don't want to learn, they can play a different tour somewhere.

munchin
08-29-2008, 10:03 PM
Great job LPGA Tour. I know that I would be much more apt to watch if some more of the top players spoke English. If they don't want to learn, they can play a different tour somewhere.

I don't know about "great job" just yet, but I anticipate the ratings over the next few years to see if this had any noteworthy impact. Hopefully, their ratings double and the foreign players feel enriched for their newfound English skills and everyone goes away happy. That sounds kinda sarcastic, but hopefully...

I guess I still don't get what's so hard about hiring interpreters.

sportfan92
08-29-2008, 10:27 PM
I really doubt there is going to be much improvement in the rating. ESPN doesn't cover much LPGA first of all, and even so, not many people watch even the men's golf.

Being Korean American, I am aware that Korean players have some good success. You would think this would make Korea pay huge attention to LPGA. Except some older people who enjoy golf, Koreans around me as far as I know hardly know few decent things about LPGA. They probably couldn't even name 2 or 3 Korean players off their head(not counting Michelle Wie).

And I wonder what Americans would think of LPGA. And I agree about the translator/interpreter. They can always use it, what's the big deal?

mrjiggyfly2
09-01-2008, 08:40 PM
I was never a big Helen Alfredsson fan.....until now

Question: The LPGA has been in the news this week for implementing a mandatory English rule. It’s a second language for you. What do you think of the rule and how it’s been handled so far?

Alfredsson: I think it’s good. The Koreans are such good players, and we are one of the few sports that have direct one-on-one contact with our sponsors through the pro-ams. I think it’s very difficult if you play 18 holes, and the person you play with says nothing. What do they get out of that? All the sponsors want to leave with something. The problem is the Koreans are not brought up that way. I think it’s a process, but it is a good rule. We are in America and we should learn English.

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news;_ylt=AkcGTCf_mTGrSOKdIEGANdAogsUF?slug=ys-se10questions082808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

nelslus
09-02-2008, 06:31 AM
It's funny- I meant a number of times to bring this topic up during the various Tailgate gatherings- and just never got around to it. At least, this topic never got discussed while I was around. :lipsrsealed:

Personally, I can't stand this decision from the LPGA. I certainly respect the viewpoints of TAT posters who have pointed out that they personally would feel obligated to learn another language if they were to move and do business in another country. Fair enough. I want to make absolutely certain that the rest of what I'm about to write is not meant at all to insult fellow TAT-ites who have different views here, as I totally respect the opinions expressed here.

I'm all for encouraging players to learn English on the LPGA tour. Do everything possible to be helpful about this with foreign players? Cool with me. However, when it comes to sports, making this potentially mandatory, or get kicked out of the tour? Even if, hypothetically at least, this policy is meant with the best of intentions? As IF we need to do even more for folks in the world to hate Americans. IMO this obviously just will come off to many as pure xenophobia- ESPECIALLY with so many great Korean players now on the LPGA tour. I am inspired by hearing of the struggles of so many to get to the top in sports- and it ain't exactly easy navigating your way in this country if you're from somewhere else. To potentially crush the chances of someone who just may not be able to learn English all that great just smacks of being cruel.

Sure, I'm one of the many tennis nerds here who like to read the interviews and dissect everything (particularly when such dissection needs to TAT naughtiness.) But, ultimately? I just want to see great tennis. I do not feel that it's sports stars' obligations to become the Next TAT Special through terrific or horrendous English-speaking interviews. (OK, maybe I need to re-think THIS viewpoint.....) Just play the damned game and to do it well.

Again, personal responsibility- to do what you can to get along in the country where you're spending most of your time- is one thing. IMO I just wish we all could at least take a moment to really reflect on, and understand that, regardless of our personal views on all of this- we understand how this all can come off to the rest of the world. Especially in a time where our stock is so low. It all can just come off as yet another example of Americans being snotty, elitist, and deeply hypocritical. We'd rank SO far down the list of folks-who-can-speak-other-languages. It's so ridiculous that over-all, Americans (including myself here- Madame would laugh herself silly with what little French I've retained from school years) can't be bothered to learn ANY other language, even though we increasingly must do business internationally- and yet, here we go AGAIN, expecting folks to learn OUR language. America's GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT- and everyone else sucks. Ugly Americanism strikes again.

dryrunguy
09-02-2008, 07:31 AM
I'm with you, nelslus. Even though the vast majority of events are held on U.S. grounds, the players represent a broader, more diverse international community. They have everything to gain by speaking English. I just don't like the idea of making it mandatory in this manner. I can also see how it has to be a major drag in Pro-Am events when two players can't even communicate. But still, there are better ways to go about solving the issue.

Incidentally, there have been times when I could barely understand a word uttered by some U.S.-born athletes. To me, that's far worse than Korean-born golfers who can't speak English at all... At least they have a legitimate excuse.

nelslus
09-02-2008, 08:15 AM
I'm with you, nelslus. Even though the vast majority of events are held on U.S. grounds, the players represent a broader, more diverse international community. They have everything to gain by speaking English. I just don't like the idea of making it mandatory in this manner. I can also see how it has to be a major drag in Pro-Am events when two players can't even communicate. But still, there are better ways to go about solving the issue.

Incidentally, there have been times when I could barely understand a word uttered by some U.S.-born athletes. To me, that's far worse than Korean-born golfers who can't speak English at all... At least they have a legitimate excuse.

Plus, frankly, while I get that the LPGA muckety-mucks may not share the following sentiments- I just cannot work up any real concern over the travails of the Richy-Rich, Fat-Cat Pro-Am participants.....

Pierre1
09-02-2008, 10:49 AM
The days of standard English as THE international language are numbered. I was just reading something about this. A new language is emerging that is an English-Asian (Mostly Chinese) fusion. Really interesting stuff. It was a magazine article, I don't know if I could find a link on-line.

We had our century and the Brits had the one before, but that's pretty much over.

No more American diktats to the international community.

suliso
09-02-2008, 11:01 AM
The days of standard English as THE international language are numbered. I was just reading something about this. A new language is emerging that is an English-Asian (Mostly Chinese) fusion. Really interesting stuff. It was a magazine article, I don't know if I could find a link on-line.


That makes zero sense. Historically dominant languages tend to linger a lot longer than countries of their origin. Latin was a dominant international language for almost a thousand years after a collapse of the Roman Empire.

English will be the most important language for a long time even if USA goes into decline (not at all certain I might add)....

Pierre1
09-02-2008, 11:17 AM
That makes zero sense.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but there are acceptable ways of doing so. The above is unacceptable and quite insulting.

suliso
09-02-2008, 11:18 AM
I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but there are acceptable ways of doing so. The above is unacceptable and quite insulting.

Sorry, I didn't mean it :o

I should have said "strongly disagree"

JTContinental
09-02-2008, 02:43 PM
Isn't English currently the official international business language?

dryrunguy
09-02-2008, 02:48 PM
I really don't know why we're discussion this. When 2020-something rolls around and Hispanics become the majority population in the U.S., then all of the Koreans will have to learn Spanish after it becomes the official language of the United States. :cheesy:

Kirkus
09-02-2008, 03:08 PM
Isn't this TAT's policy as well?

It is.

mrjiggyfly2
09-05-2008, 10:12 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-lpga-english&prov=ap&type=lgns

LPGA caves in to political correctness :blahblah:

dryrunguy
09-05-2008, 10:19 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-lpga-english&prov=ap&type=lgns

LPGA caves in to political correctness :blahblah:

But I really like this paragraph:

“We have decided to rescind those penalty provisions,” Bivens said in a statement. “After hearing the concerns, we believe there are other ways to achieve our shared objective of supporting and enhancing the business opportunities for every tour player.”

I think that's true. And after this experience, I bet the non-English-speaking players will be calling up Rosetta Stone in droves. At least, if they're smart, they will.

Ti-Amie
09-05-2008, 10:26 AM
I don't think anyone had a problem with asking the players to be fluent in English so that they can converse with people who pony up the big bucks. I think the issue was you'll get kicked to the curb if you don't.

After the media storm they're doing the right thing and encouraging players to speak English. Unless there was resistance from the players involved the storm trooper tactics were unnecessary.

jjnow
09-05-2008, 10:33 AM
I really don't know why we're discussion this. When 2020-something rolls around and Hispanics become the majority population in the U.S., then all of the Koreans will have to learn Spanish after it becomes the official language of the United States. :cheesy:
LOL.

But I have to say, I'm honestly not opposed to making English the official language of the US. In fact I'm probably a proponent. My uncle is an ER physician and has tons of stories of language barriers getting in the way, sometimes ending very tragically. I just wish we had better programs to help immigrants learn English.

I think the LPGA made the right decision.

missinandre
09-05-2008, 10:37 AM
I think.....the demand and the threat of explusion from the game are fundamentally unfair.

Is there any other sport that has this requirement? It sounds like...the LPGA wants the players to be uniform in a way....but this is a sport, and international sport that has international players.....on what grounds does the LPGA get to make English the "official" language by demanding that everyone speak English?

I wont deny that this is a touchy subject with me. It smacks of the same thing when school systems were demanding that everyone in the schools speak english....and didn't want to provide any alternatives to students that have English as a second language.

But I will say this....if the LPGA wants all of it's players to speak english then they need to create a program for this...a timetable, and provide the funds for it.

Personally, I don't agree with it at all. I think they could ask, encourage and provide opportunities to learn English......if they want to penalize they could say that the players need to pay / provide for their own translators (for interviews etc) but to actually demand and then threaten ....is way unreasonable.

missinandre
09-05-2008, 10:41 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-lpga-english&prov=ap&type=lgns

LPGA caves in to political correctness :blahblah:

Instead of political correctness....how about....they gave a thought to what's fair and what's not fair?

But...Kudos to the LPGA!

sportfan92
09-05-2008, 10:53 AM
Getting suspension for not speaking English is pretty harsh.

Americans are notorious for going to foreign countries and expecting them to speak English. Just because English is a lingua franca, doesn't mean they're entitled to force people to speak it.

Why do you think there is no official language in US? because the concept lies in the fact that it's a free country.

mrjiggyfly2
09-05-2008, 10:56 AM
Getting suspension for not speaking English is pretty harsh.

Americans are notorious for going to foreign countries and expecting them to speak English. Just because English is a lingua franca, doesn't mean they're entitled to force people to speak it.

Why do you think there is no official language in US? because the concept lies in the fact that it's a free country.

Any American who goes to a foreign country and expects the natives of that country to speak English is a presumptuous idiot. But I don't think it's too much to require people in this country to speak English.

dryrunguy
09-05-2008, 11:07 AM
Any American who goes to a foreign country and expects the natives of that country to speak English is a presumptuous idiot. But I don't think it's too much to require people in this country to speak English.

Does that include professional athletes from other sports who get a free pass through U.S. high schools and colleges because of their athletic ability, can't read a book, and wouldn't know the difference between a noun and a verb if it bit them in the ass, but continue to be allowed to rake in millions per year? All the while setting "an example" for our youth as role models, but still can't speak viable English themselves, in spite of being raised in an English-speaking household?

And while we're at it, what about half of the people who appear on Judy Judy! :cheesy:

rabbit
09-05-2008, 11:24 AM
Personally, I don't really understand why there is no official language for the US at a national level. As jj said, language barriers do pose a difficult problem in many crucial situations.

As for the LPGA, making fluent English a compulsory requirement makes no sense to me. The players are not coming to the US to immigrate. I agree that for promotion purposes, players should be encouraged to speak English. But it's their job to play, not promote. I don't think footballers playing in Barca or Real Madrid are required to know Spanish, for instance.

Speaking of soccer, there is a similar controversy brewing over a language requirement for the English Premier League, which will take effect from October: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3883151.ece.

jjnow
09-05-2008, 12:23 PM
Speaking of soccer, there is a similar controversy brewing over a language requirement for the English Premier League, which will take effect from October: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3883151.ece.
Thanks for the link, rabbit. I think I may agree with TPTB here. It sounds like most of these footballers are going to live in the UK, and if I read it correctly, this is a policy that Britain is adapting for all incoming immigrants.

I wonder how they define "simple English?"

dryrunguy
09-05-2008, 12:28 PM
Thanks for the link, rabbit. I think I may agree with TPTB here. It sounds like most of these footballers are going to live in the UK, and if I read it correctly, this is a policy that Britain is adapting for all incoming immigrants.

I wonder how they define "simple English?"

I hope it's not by Randy Jackson's, "Yo, yo, yo! Check it out!"

amenssen
09-05-2008, 02:11 PM
We can stop talking about this now since I just read that the LPGA is backing down, here is the link.

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1839072,00.html

rabbit
09-05-2008, 02:17 PM
I hope it's not by Randy Jackson's, "Yo, yo, yo! Check it out!"

I love the example of familiar English expressions given in that article I linked to: “The referee’s a ******” :p

Jack
09-07-2008, 06:24 AM
It sounds like it's become a non-issue at this point. But the LPGA, and any other association, has the right to establish rules and guidelines for it's members. Obviously, those need to be rules that the tour sponsors and members will support, or else they will back other events and tours. But I don't fault them at all for their original decision, although I think they would be better served to recognize their future as a more international tour, and deal with that reality instead of trying to force the sport to stay based in North America. It sounds like they are panicking, shifting into crisis mode, and making some dramatic decisions to retain their current infrastructure, because it could be on it's last legs. Consider:

* The LPGA has never been a "major sport" tour. They have never had the publicity or the depth of well known players that the PGA, ATP and WTA have.
* In recent years, the most publicity that the LPGA has received has focused on Sorenstam and Wie playing PGA events - not exactly a story that puts the LPGA in a favorable light.
* It's not as stable a tour environment as the PGA, ATP, or WTA; as recently as eight years ago, they actually swapped in/out events for their four majors - the Canadian Open got bumped for the British Open. (Can you imagine that happening in the PGA or tennis tours?)
* While tour prize money has grown, it's been at a much lower rate than the PGA or tennis tours.
* With a financial recession in the US, and 75-80% of the events (and sponsors) based here, they are facing a very real threat to their pocketbook. If you're a company that sponsors a PGA and LPGA event, and you have to slash expenses, where do you start?
* The bulk of winners on tour are now non-American. The last time an American led the tour in events won was 1996.

I can't fault them for making decisions to try and stay alive. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 10-15 years they ended up merging with the European and/or Asian golf tours, or somehow under one umbrella.