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Moose
08-21-2008, 07:47 PM
International Olympic Committee launches probe into He Kexin's age

Tim Reid in Washington, Jeremy Griffin and Jane Macartney in Beijing

The International Olympic Committee has ordered an investigation into mounting allegations that Chinese authorities covered up the true age of their gold-medal winning gymnastics star because she was too young to compete.

An IOC official told The Times that because of "discrepancies" that have come to light about the age of He Kexin, the host nationís darling who won gold in both team and individual events, an official inquiry has been launched that could result in the gymnast being stripped of her medals.

The investigation was triggered as a US computer expert claimed yesterday to have uncovered Chinese government documents that he says prove she is only 14 - making her ineligible to compete in the Olympics - rather than 16, as officials in Beijing insist is her age.

Mike Walker, a computer security expert, told The Times how he tracked down two documents that he says had been removed from a Chinese government website. The documents, he said, stated that Heís birth date was January 1 1994 - making her 14 - and not January 1 1992, which is printed in her passport.

Heís true age has been a subject of swirling controversy since the Games began. Questions over her eligibility intensified after she edged out the US gymnast Nastia Liukin for the gold medal in the uneven bars on Monday, and was part of the team gold triumph last week. She also edged Britainís Beth Tweddle out of the medals.

Bela Karolyi, the former gymnastics coach whose wife, Martha, coaches the US womenís team, has repeatedly accused the Chinese of fielding underage female gymnasts. The ages of two other team members have also aroused suspicion: Jiang Yuyuan and Yang Yilin. Time magazine reported that government records, that have since disappeared, showed both girls to be 14. Gymnasts must be 16 to compete.

The minimum age for female gymnasts was increased from 14 to 15 in 1981, and up to 16 in 1997, to protect the physical and mental health of young athletes.

Rest of story: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article4583174.ece

Moose
08-21-2008, 07:52 PM
From page 2 of the article:

Under his blog name Stryde Hax, Mr Walker wrote: "Much of the coverage regarding Kexinís age has only mentioned Ďallegationsí of fraud, and the IOC has ignored the matter completely. I believe that these primary documents, issued by the Chinese state ... rise to a level of evidence higher than Ďallegationí. How official are these documents? Pretty dang official - they were issued by the General Administration of Sport of China."

______________________________________________

The guy's saying he has the official government proof that she was 14, not 16. Going to be interesting to see how far, if at all, the IOC goes with this. YOu are talking about clear allegations of fraud, with authentication. And a proven effort to conceal records that had been published on the internet showing the girl as being a 14 year old.

bea26
08-21-2008, 08:41 PM
Tasty.

dryrunguy
08-21-2008, 09:07 PM
What's most unfortunate is that a very talent young Chinese girl stands to be stripped of medals for which she has worked (and been worked) very hard.

The implications would be so huge. Will China be stripped of the team title as well? I'm assuming so. But they should also be banned from competing in the next Olympics... The officials who facilitated the fraud should be severely punished (by a system that generally advocates a "Win. At all costs." mentality.

My fear, though, is that nothing will come of this.

It's also a shame that it was an American who claims to have found these documents.

mwoods
08-21-2008, 09:32 PM
DRAMA!!!

At this point, it's sad for everyone who played fair, but I think it's best to let it go, rather than ripping that medal off that little girl (I'm presuming she wears it at all times :)).

It's sad that the spirit of the Games may have been broken, but it would be even more sad to see the Games turn into a finger-pointing, dirt-digging mess.

shtexas
08-21-2008, 09:40 PM
I feel bad for the kids. They obviously performed beautifully.

Then I think that maybe we have a 14 year old good enough in the US. Maybe two. Maybe one of them would have been in the team final and not fallen off the beam and floor. But, we didn't try to sneak one or two in. We didn't develop underage kids to be ready for these Olympics.

If you are going to have the rule, all countries must follow it.

shtexas
08-21-2008, 09:49 PM
I feel bad for the kids. They obviously performed beautifully.

Then I think that maybe we have a 14 year old good enough in the US. Maybe two. Maybe one of them would have been in the team final and not fallen off the beam and floor. But, we didn't try to sneak one or two in. We didn't develop underage kids to be ready for these Olympics.

If you are going to have the rule, all countries must follow it.

And maybe Russia had a 14 year old who could have been the catalyst for better performances from their whole team. But, they didn't try to cheat.

oohsalmon
08-21-2008, 09:50 PM
She knows she's 14. She knew she was cheating, as did her coaches.

They deserve nothing.

JTContinental
08-21-2008, 09:55 PM
She knows she's 14. She knew she was cheating, as did her coaches.

They deserve nothing.


Harsh...but kind of true.

Even as I write this, the partner is reading some story on Yahoo! about allegations of horse doping in the equestrian events. Ridiculous.

dryrunguy
08-21-2008, 10:12 PM
She knows she's 14. She knew she was cheating, as did her coaches.

They deserve nothing.

Does she? Most of the Chinese gymnasts are snapped up by the government at age 3 or 4 because they show talent. They're then raised by the state with only limited, if any, visitation with parents or anyone else who would know their true age. So maybe she doesn't know how old she really is.

I think that's a stretch, but it's possible.

pamchenko
08-21-2008, 10:22 PM
I'm sure that He Kexin knows her true age, but I think it's incredibly harsh to expect a 14-year-old child to be held responsible for/stand up to a state machine that raised her, trained her, and lifted the living standards for her entire family in return. I don't know what the solution is here, but I think that to say "she knew she was cheating", as if there was anything she could have done about it, is a little cruel.

oohsalmon
08-21-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm sure that He Kexin knows her true age, but I think it's incredibly harsh to expect a 14-year-old child to be held responsible for/stand up to a state machine that raised her, trained her, and lifted the living standards for her entire family in return. I don't know what the solution is here, but I think that to say "she knew she was cheating", as if there was anything she could have done about it, is a little cruel.

I didn't say that.

But I think in the end the decision she made could be incredibly shameful to all involved over there.

Doc_P
08-22-2008, 04:56 AM
I didn't say that.

But I think in the end the decision she made could be incredibly shameful to all involved over there.

I don't believe that the decision was all hers.

I also doubt that the Chinese government or its Olympic committee has any sense of shame.

I am sure that their government knows exactly how old she is.

Ti-Amie
08-22-2008, 05:04 AM
The IOC has been dragged kicking and screaming to do this. Anyone with eyes knew He Kexin was not sixteen. If this guy hadn't dug deep into the internets they wouldn't be doing it now since the first set of documents mysteriously disappeared.

Somehow I don't think Kexin would tell her coaches that she couldn't compete because of her age so to blame her is a stretch based on what we think we know about the system there.

zephblabs
08-22-2008, 05:13 AM
just read in the front page of yahoo that they dismissed it.

Pierre1
08-22-2008, 05:33 AM
The IOC are a gutless, corrupt, money-grabbing embarrassment to sports and our species.

pamchenko
08-22-2008, 06:23 AM
But I think in the end the decision she made could be incredibly shameful to all involved over there.

It's moot now that it's been dismissed, but the material point is that He Kexin didn't make any of these decisions herself.

Moose
08-22-2008, 06:31 AM
just read in the front page of yahoo that they dismissed it.

Not real sure that the Yahoo report is accurate..pretty much every news medium is reporting this morning that a full investigation is under way.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/21/gymnasts.age/?iref=mpstoryview

nelslus
08-22-2008, 06:35 AM
Not real sure that the Yahoo report is accurate..pretty much every news medium is reporting this morning that a full investigation is under way.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/21/gymnasts.age/?iref=mpstoryview

Actually, I was just about to write in that even according Yahoo!, it would appear that this story ain't over yet. From what I can see, the headline stated that they haven't found any proof of the gymnasts being underage.....BUT, when you read the whole article......

Here's what I found in a Yahoo! article: "The International Olympic Committee said Friday there is still no proof anyone cheated, but it asked gymnastics officials to investigate ďwhat have been a number of questions and apparent discrepancies,Ē spokeswoman Giselle Davies said. The International Gymnastics Federation asked China to submit documents that will further substantiate the ages of He Kexin (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/chn/kexin+he/235312/;_ylt=Ah2RlrlQGVjDZf9qLBZoWqfQ1Zl4), Yang Yilin (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/chn/yilin+yang/235316/;_ylt=AnZtw9goAUOnlC.zwxjGWMHQ1Zl4), Jiang Yuyuan (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/chn/yuyuan+jiang/235313/;_ylt=AneZ_fmWxgWRgL7htGMaMqvQ1Zl4), Deng Linlin (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/chn/linlin+deng/235318/;_ylt=Aje1HUwGzINeqn7B03vgVdzQ1Zl4) and Li Shanshan (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/chn/shanshan+li/235314/;_ylt=AnYFd5N0sZ6zar44EivLLxLQ1Zl4).

The federation said it would forward its conclusions to the IOC. If it finds evidence that the gymnasts were underage, it could affect four of Chinaís six medals. In addition to the team gold and Heís gold on uneven bars, Yang won bronze medals in the all-around and bars."

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news;_ylt=AtfDMKZMMrjLEgxAklqYT0Q5nYcB?slug=ap-gym-underagechinese&prov=ap&type=lgns

Of course, my guess is they're gonna do their damndest NOT to have to get ugly with this....we shall see.......

oohsalmon
08-22-2008, 06:37 AM
It's moot now that it's been dismissed, but the material point is that He Kexin didn't make any of these decisions herself.

Eh...she still let it happen, even if there was some arm twisting involved. There is PLENTY of guilt to go around, I'm sure.

nelslus
08-22-2008, 06:40 AM
Eh...she still let it happen, even if there was some arm twisting involved. There is PLENTY of guilt to go around, I'm sure.

I totally have to back up pamchenko on this one. I just don't think that there is/has been much "choice" given to these gymnasts. My guess- a LOT more than arm twisting going on here......

Drop-shot
08-22-2008, 06:42 AM
Does she? Most of the Chinese gymnasts are snapped up by the government at age 3 or 4 because they show talent. They're then raised by the state with only limited, if any, visitation with parents or anyone else who would know their true age. So maybe she doesn't know how old she really is.

I think that's a stretch, but it's possible.

I'm curious, how do they know someone is talented for such a thing at such a young age. What? A Chinese official was just strolling down the countryside and saw a 3 y.o. doing some gymnastics?

I know it's done, but I don't know how they can assess the talent of something like that at that age. I bet we probably fell a lot while running at age 3. Let alone be useless in any other more complicated disciplines.


Anyways, this should be punished as to at least project a sense of "fair play". If not it's a blank check for future breaches.

I feel that she didn't need to be "persuaded", but had she needed it... well I'm sure she has family. She would've had no choice.

nelslus
08-22-2008, 06:45 AM
I'm curious, how do they know someone is talented for such a thing at such a young age. What? A Chinese official was just strolling down the countryside and saw a 3 y.o. doing some gymnastics?

I know it's done, but I don't know how they can assess the talent of something like that at that age. I bet we probably fell a lot while running at age 3. Let alone be useless in any other more complicated disciplines.


Anyways, this should be punished as to at least project a sense of "fair play". If not it's a blank check for future breaches.

Who knows? We need pamchenko to chime in on this topic.

Nevertheless, it can be said with reasonable certainty that if anyone had taken a gander at the 3 year old nelslus- well, let's just say that methinks that any gymnastics poo-bahs would have passed right on by nelslus regarding any kind of a gymnastics career. :(

oohsalmon
08-22-2008, 06:45 AM
I totally have to back up pamchenko on this one. I just don't think that there is/has been much "choice" given to these gymnasts. My guess- a LOT more than arm twisting going on here......

I'm not saying she should be considered the primary "cheater" per se, but I think it should be acknowledged that she went up there and had gold medals draped around her neck knowing full well that she was ineligible, knowing that she was breaking the rule.

She's not as clueless as her eyeshadow would let on.

nelslus
08-22-2008, 06:48 AM
I'm not saying she should be considered the primary "cheater" per se, but I think it should be acknowledged that she went up there and had gold medals draped around her neck knowing full well that she was ineligible, knowing that she was breaking the rule.

She's not as clueless as her eyeshadow would let on.

Oh, clueless, no. But, when it truly comes to passing along blame.....I'm just not into dumping on these however-old-they-truly-are gymanasts is all. Just a different world over there.

nelslus
08-22-2008, 06:53 AM
I'm not saying she should be considered the primary "cheater" per se, but I think it should be acknowledged that she went up there and had gold medals draped around her neck knowing full well that she was ineligible, knowing that she was breaking the rule.

She's not as clueless as her eyeshadow would let on.

I must however note that I love the eyeshadow comment.

HEY- why didn't they shove more rouge and falsies on the tykes, too? Then for SURE no one would have been suspicious. :cheesy:

pamchenko
08-22-2008, 06:55 AM
To read that He Kexin is herself a cheater implies to me that people believe she had a viable option. And I don't understand what anyone would think that option would be. These girls are taken from their families, raised to compete in complete obedience, their parents often want them to stay because they receive material benefit for "giving" their child to the state cause, and one day they're handed a new passport that says they're three years older than they were the day before.

What, precisely, is a child to do in that situation? I really think that any discussion of He Kexin's personal reponsibility is completely misplaced. I don't even know that I think the coaches bear much responsibility-- more than He Kexin herself, but I would have no trouble believing that these decisions are all made by higher-ups in the federation, not by anyone who's actually on the floor at the gym.

dryrunguy
08-22-2008, 07:02 AM
I must however note that I love the eyeshadow comment.

HEY- why didn't they shove more rouge and falsies on the tykes, too? Then for SURE no one would have been suspicious. :cheesy:

I was wondering about that, too. They could have at least made an effort. But they would have had to practice with them for years... you know, just to get used to them.

dryrunguy
08-22-2008, 07:06 AM
To read that He Kexin is herself a cheater implies to me that people believe she had a viable option. And I don't understand what anyone would think that option would be. These girls are taken from their families, raised to compete in complete obedience, their parents often want them to stay because they receive material benefit for "giving" their child to the state cause, and one day they're handed a new passport that says they're three years older than they were the day before.

What, precisely, is a child to do in that situation? I really think that any discussion of He Kexin's personal reponsibility is completely misplaced. I don't even know that I think the coaches bear much responsibility-- more than He Kexin herself, but I would have no trouble believing that these decisions are all made by higher-ups in the federation, not by anyone who's actually on the floor at the gym.

Oh, Pam, she should have stood up for what was right and said, "I'll have none of this! Because no Gold Medal is worth sacrificing my supremely well-developed sense of right and wrong!"

Which, of course, would have shamed her family and probably gotten them all jailed and they would have lost everything and all of the opportunity her talent had earned them. My understanding is that not only is He Kexin set for life, but so is her family. They are now on easy street... if I understand how it works.

I'm with you. Children are never as responsible for these types of things as the adults in their lives.

Drop-shot
08-22-2008, 07:13 AM
Oh, Pam, she should have stood up for what was right and said, "I'll have none of this! Because no Gold Medal is worth sacrificing my supremely well-developed sense of right and wrong!"

Which, of course, would have shamed her family and probably gotten them all jailed and they would have lost everything and all of the opportunity her talent had earned them. My understanding is that not only is He Kexin set for life, but so is her family. They are now on easy street... if I understand how it works.

I'm with you. Children are never as responsible for these types of things as the adults in their lives.

ohhh, you're being optimistic.


The girl is not responsible. And since the truly responsible ones are high gov. chinese officials, no real culprit will be punished...
Well maybe the one dumb enough to post her real age, but other than that...

pamchenko
08-22-2008, 07:14 AM
My understanding is that not only is He Kexin set for life, but so is her family. They are now on easy street... if I understand how it works.

You understand correctly. And these are not situations where families are likely to say, "Oh, they asked you to lie? Those big bad meanies, why don't you just come on home?", even if she wanted to be honest and forthright and try to fight TPTB.

oohsalmon
08-22-2008, 07:17 AM
Responsible? No.

Complicit? Yes.

I think that's the adjective that's gonna make me happy :).

dryrunguy
08-22-2008, 07:21 AM
I think the investigators should be more patient. File a petition for her medical records every 6 months or so, and when she has her first period about 2-3 years from now, she'll be caught!

Drop-shot
08-22-2008, 07:27 AM
I think the investigators should be more patient. File a petition for her medical records every 6 months or so, and when she has her first period about 2-3 years from now, she'll be caught!

Some young girls who compete and train so hard don't have a menstrual cycle (or have an irregular one) because they're so worked that they don't have the energy. Also because they're so lean that they don't have enough fat in their bodies to kick it off.
Obviously happens to anorexic girls too.

Carry on.

dryrunguy
08-22-2008, 07:29 AM
Some young girls who compete and train so hard don't have a menstrual cycle (or have an irregular one) because they're so worked that they don't have the energy. Also because they're so lean that they don't have enough fat in their bodies to kick it off.
Obviously happens to anorexic girls too.

Carry on.

Oh don't quibble. I was going for a moment! :mad:

pamchenko
08-22-2008, 07:33 AM
Responsible? No.

Complicit? Yes.

I think that's the adjective that's gonna make me happy :).

Sorry, still not buying it. The definition of "complicit" is "choosing to be involved in an illegal or questionable act, esp. with others; having complicity." She had no choice, which eliminates the possibility of complicity.

jjnow
08-22-2008, 07:34 AM
Some young girls who compete and train so hard don't have a menstrual cycle (or have an irregular one) because they're so worked that they don't have the energy. Also because they're so lean that they don't have enough fat in their bodies to kick it off.
Obviously happens to anorexic girls too.

Carry on.
I think it was Dominique Moceanu on Real Sports who said she didn't menstruate until she was about 19-20.

I doubt anything will ever come of this "probe."

pamchenko
08-22-2008, 07:38 AM
I doubt anything will ever come of this "probe."

I agree, unless they go hunting for actual documents-- which I'm sure are gone by now-- there's just not really a reliable way to determine her age. Which is too bad, because I think the Chinese gymnastics federation deserves to be banned just like the North Korean federation was when they pulled this trick.

Pierre1
08-22-2008, 07:43 AM
China doesn't have the same sense of "individual" that exists elsewhere. The kid had nothing to say in the matter, nor did her family.

The "me" thing is what used to infuriate Chinese tennis about Li Na. Li wanted more of her winnings and said so, she went on shopping sprees, she expressed displeasure with decisions made by higher ups - she was headed for re-education.

pamchenko
08-22-2008, 07:47 AM
The "me" thing is what used to infuriate Chinese tennis about Li Na. Li wanted more of her winnings and said so, she went on shopping sprees, she expressed displeasure with decisions made by higher ups - she was headed for re-education.

This actually happened in skating 10-11 years ago, too. Lu Chen wanted to remain with her coach in California against the wishes of the Chinese federation; she was recalled home and no one heard from her for a year. I was training with a friend of hers at the time, and every time she tried to call Lu in China, she was denied access by the Chinese authorities. It was, um, fun times.

Moose
08-22-2008, 08:13 AM
The "me" thing is what used to infuriate Chinese tennis about Li Na. Li wanted more of her winnings and said so, she went on shopping sprees, she expressed displeasure with decisions made by higher ups - she was headed for re-education.


This actually happened in skating 10-11 years ago, too. Lu Chen wanted to remain with her coach in California against the wishes of the Chinese federation; she was recalled home and no one heard from her for a year. I was training with a friend of hers at the time, and every time she tried to call Lu in China, she was denied access by the Chinese authorities. It was, um, fun times.

It also happened in tennis in 1989. Only it was Russia. And one of my all time faves, Natalia Zvereva. Fortunately, Natasha won the showdown. And the first thing she did was go buy herself a Mercedes.

Ti-Amie
08-22-2008, 08:32 AM
The same thing happened to Quo Jingjing, the springboard diver. She had broken away from diving and was making a living modeling and doing other things. But she was "persuaded" to dive this one last time and she was there. And she is not a kid.

I don't think anything will come of it but I agree with Pam that just like N Korea was banned for a time China should be too.

zephblabs
08-22-2008, 08:46 AM
The same thing happened to Quo Jingjing, the springboard diver. She had broken away from diving and was making a living modeling and doing other things. But she was "persuaded" to dive this one last time and she was there. And she is not a kid.

I don't think anything will come of it but I agree with Pam that just like N Korea was banned for a time China should be too.

It would be hard to find acceptable evidence against China. The media is making a case of hacked files, and I don't think that should be accepted. North Korea was caught because they were stupid enough to make kim gwang suk the same age for 3 years in a row. The chinese are much smarter than that, He Kexin will definitely be 17 by next year.

I understand that China broke the rules, but the age rule seems useless to me. It certainly is not discouraging young gymnasts from practicing extremely difficult skills.

Pierre1
08-22-2008, 08:59 AM
It certainly is not discouraging young gymnasts from practicing extremely difficult skills.

The younger the gymnast, the more fearless, I think. I remember some of the stunts my brothers and I tried when we were young. Still have the scars.



___________________________

zephblabs
08-22-2008, 09:02 AM
The younger the gymnast, the more fearless, I think. I remember some of the stunts my brothers and me tried when we were young. Still have the scars.
As long as there is an incentive kids and coaches will continue doing them.
In women's gymnastics, temember the one handed giant done by liu xuan? it's extremely difficult but since the FIG gave it a very low difficulty value, no one is even considering doing it.

JTContinental
08-22-2008, 09:22 AM
I totally have to back up pamchenko on this one. I just don't think that there is/has been much "choice" given to these gymnasts. My guess- a LOT more than arm twisting going on here......

If they twist her arms too much, she won't be able to perform her uneven bar routine.

Pierre1
08-22-2008, 09:45 AM
Underage gymnasts aside, now the ultimate outrage, China has blocked iTunes.

mwoods
08-22-2008, 11:11 AM
I think it was Dominique Moceanu on Real Sports who said she didn't menstruate until she was about 19-20.


That's a little too "Real" if you ask me.

Kirkus
08-22-2008, 12:29 PM
There's no way any of the girls should be held responsible for anything that might come to light. Do you honestly think if the state decides you're going to compete in the Olympics, that one of these girls is going to say, "No. I can't. I'm too young." Puh-leeze!

If any of us think we know what happens in China, we're kidding ourselves. What happens in China stays in China.

oohsalmon
08-22-2008, 04:57 PM
Sorry, still not buying it. The definition of "complicit" is "choosing to be involved in an illegal or questionable act, esp. with others; having complicity." She had no choice, which eliminates the possibility of complicity.

But she is choosing to do all these international press conferences where she swears by her age. She could still choose to admit the truth and accept the consequence, but she hasn't.

I'm not saying it would be an easy (or smart) thing to do, but it is an option.

zephblabs
08-22-2008, 07:12 PM
But she is choosing to do all these international press conferences where she swears by her age. She could still choose to admit the truth and accept the consequence, but she hasn't.

I'm not saying it would be an easy (or smart) thing to do, but it is an option.

Say she did just that. What would happen to her? Whether she is 14 or 16, she is still a kid. Certainly if I was in her position and the higher ups decided i would compete even if i were too young, i would follow what they want. She had sacrificed and suffered too much.
If you were in her position would just throw away what you have worked for, knowing that your family depended on you?
As kirkus said, we don't really have an idea what happens in china. we can only imagine and assume.

pamchenko
08-22-2008, 08:13 PM
But she is choosing to do all these international press conferences where she swears by her age. She could still choose to admit the truth and accept the consequence, but she hasn't.

I'm not saying it would be an easy (or smart) thing to do, but it is an option.

If you yourself don't even think it would be smart (and you're right, it wouldn't be), I don't know why you expect her to do it. Even thinking about making her complicit or culpable in this whole mess is cruel, IMO.

Ti-Amie
08-22-2008, 09:51 PM
If you yourself don't even think it would be smart (and you're right, it wouldn't be), I don't know why you expect her to do it. Even thinking about making her complicit or culpable in this whole mess is cruel, IMO.

That's a wrap.

sportfan92
08-25-2008, 01:15 PM
I personally don't think it's just He Kexin only. There are multiple others that I suspect. My guess is that government told them to fake their age and told their family to shut up about it.

I know Asians are tiny, and being gymnast only makes them shorter. But even so, they're too tiny that I seriously doubt they're 16. Does China think rest of the world is stupid enough that we can't distinguish a 12 year old and 16 year old?

Despite all this said, I don't think there is anything wrong with sending underage kids. It's the talent that counts, not the age. Comaneci did it when she was around 13 or 14 so these kids can do it too. The fact that China tries to come up as clean while being dirty kinda pisses me off. I also heard Korean archery team was enormously distracted by rude Chinese fans. Being Korean, I kinda got pissed at China in some ways in this Olympic.

Pierre1
08-25-2008, 02:17 PM
The UK had a 14 year old in the men's diving finals. There's no rule against it. There is in gymnastics. It makes no difference, as we've seen. :cool:

sportfan92
08-27-2008, 09:22 PM
The UK had a 14 year old in the men's diving finals. There's no rule against it. There is in gymnastics. It makes no difference, as we've seen. :cool:

Yea but in the end, rules are rules. And don't forget that in gymnastics at least, younger kids tend to do better because they're more flexible and get less nervous.

The fact that China is most likely breaking the rules and IOC is doing hardly a thing about it makes me upset. Oh well, home court advantage is big as they say.

missinandre
09-05-2008, 10:45 AM
If you yourself don't even think it would be smart (and you're right, it wouldn't be), I don't know why you expect her to do it. Even thinking about making her complicit or culpable in this whole mess is cruel, IMO.

Total agreement with pamchenko here.

I think her age and what she is up against nullifies any responsiblity on her part. And even if her age turns out to be a lie manufactured by the government....I don't think she deserves to be stripped of her medals because she earned them fair and square.

Rather...China should be penalized in the next Olympics....

oohsalmon
09-05-2008, 10:49 AM
Total agreement with pamchenko here.

I think her age and what she is up against nullifies any responsiblity on her part. And even if her age turns out to be a lie manufactured by the government....I don't think she deserves to be stripped of her medals because she earned them fair and square.

Rather...China should be penalized in the next Olympics....

Umm, no she didn't. If she was 14, she would have been breaking the rules. Nothing fair and square about that.

missinandre
09-07-2008, 01:18 PM
Umm, no she didn't. If she was 14, she would have been breaking the rules. Nothing fair and square about that.

By virtue of the competition and how she performed against the other athletes, ummmm yes she did earn them fair and square.

It is unfair to presume that a 14 year old can withstand the demands of a imposing government such as China. If her government did manufacture her age and did tell her she is competing....how can she reasonably say no?

She went, she performed. Again, I say that the fault and the penalty belongs to China, not to He Kexin.

And..as I stressed before...I believe her age nullifies any responsiblity. If she is 14, it is the Chinese Federation, and the Chinese Olympic Committee and the Chinese government that are breaking the rules and she.....is going to be nothing more than a victim when she doesn't have to be.

We can still applaude her performance, appreciate it, and still condemn the Chinese for allowing an underage athlete to perform.

oohsalmon
09-07-2008, 01:21 PM
By virtue of the competition and how she performed against the other athletes, ummmm yes she did earn them fair and square.

How can someone breaking the rules do anything fair and square?

Because of the physical advantage her age gave her, it's the same as if she had been on steroids.

missinandre
09-07-2008, 01:36 PM
How can someone breaking the rules do anything fair and square?

Because of the physical advantage her age gave her, it's the same as if she had been on steroids.

Yes...her size gave her such a physical advantage that she won everything and everyone else won nothing....And....she isn't the sole reason why the Chinese team won the gold.

And....wow...you compare this 14 year old to a someone on steroids? Oohsalmon....I think you'd make a GREAT prosecutor! :)