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oohsalmon
05-01-2008, 09:27 AM
http://www.alonsostudio.com/images/famous_thoroughbreds/smarty_jones.jpg

My fellow equestrians,

You are cordially invited to participate in TAT's first Smarty Jones Stakes!

At the onset of this contest, I will give each participant $10,000 to spend as they see fit. Bets will be placed by players before each of the three triple crown races, as soon as odds are posted by yours truly. You may bet as little or as much of your money as you wish on each race, betting on as many or as few horses as you like.

A horse selected that wins will pay out in full. A horse that comes in second will pay out half, and a horse that comes in third will pay out a quarter. There will be no exactas or trifectas or any of that silliness.

I look forward to seeing all of you on the tracks, as this contest trots along.

oohsalmon
05-01-2008, 09:31 AM
Here are the odds we will use for the Kentucky Derby:

Post Position - Horse - Odds
1. Cool Coal Man - 50/1
2. Tale of Ekati - 25/1
3. Anak Nakal - 100/1
4. Court Vision - 20/1
5. Eight Belles - 16/1
6. Z Fortune - 12/1
7. Big Truck - 25/1
8. Visionaire - 20/1
9. Pyro - 7/1
10. Colonel John - 4/1
11. Z Humor - 50/1
12. Smooth Air - 25/1
13. Bob Black Jack - 50/1
14. Monba - 25/1
15. Adriano - 20/1
16. Denis of Cork - 14/1
17. Cowboy Cal - 50/1
18. Recapturetheglory - 25/1
19. Gayego - 25/1
20. Big Brown - 4/1

You begin with $10,000. Bets are due an hour before the race. Any bets on horses that pull out before the race begins will be returned.

Any questions?

dryrunguy
05-01-2008, 10:23 AM
Everyone, if your post was deleted, that was my doing. We've made some adjustments to the original post and really don't want this thread to go down an inappropriate, or potentially offensive, track.

So, let's start over. ;) Take two! :cheesy:

ptmcmahon
05-01-2008, 11:28 AM
So all we have to do is pick a horse (or horses) and a bet amount correct?

(ie no picking win/place/show)

And by pay out in full/half/quarter - you mean with odds too of course, right?

oohsalmon
05-01-2008, 11:34 AM
So all we have to do is pick a horse (or horses) and a bet amount correct?

(ie no picking win/place/show)

And by pay out in full/half/quarter - you mean with odds too of course, right?

Right :)

If you bet 1000 on a 50-1 and they come in third, you win as if it was 12.5-1

dryrunguy
05-01-2008, 11:45 AM
I looked over the horses at the KY Derby site last night. Not a single gray horse in the field. Not one. I hate that. :mad: The gray horses have always been my favorites dating back to Gato del Sol... And then there was Jacklyn Klugman, which was owned by Jack Klugman and given a female name because he was told it was a filly, but it actually turned out to be a colt or a gelding... Can't remember for sure which.

And then there was Holy Bull, a great speed horse with the pedigree of a cockroach. He totally punked in the Derby, though. There have been several others, but they were always my favorites. :) But none this year. Major bummer for me.

JTContinental
05-01-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm all in for Gayego. Since that adequately describes me, how can I go wrong?

dryrunguy
05-01-2008, 11:51 AM
http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2008/
That's the link for this year's Derby. They have several folks on there who handicapped the race.

JT, Gayego is getting some love from the handicappers. :)

dryrunguy
05-01-2008, 12:02 PM
I'll probably change these later... Don't have a good sense yet who will set the speed and will be left to close. But here goes for a start:

$1,000 on Eight Belles (love it when a lady takes on the colts)
$1,000 on Adriano
$500 on Gayego
$500 on Colonel John
$500 on Z Fortune

Jack
05-01-2008, 03:37 PM
I looked over the horses at the KY Derby site last night. Not a single gray horse in the field. Not one. I hate that. :mad: The gray horses have always been my favorites dating back to Gato del Sol... And then there was Jacklyn Klugman, which was owned by Jack Klugman and given a female name because he was told it was a filly, but it actually turned out to be a colt or a gelding... Can't remember for sure which.

And then there was Holy Bull, a great speed horse with the pedigree of a cockroach. He totally punked in the Derby, though. There have been several others, but they were always my favorites. :) But none this year. Major bummer for me.

I would've pegged you for a Chris Evert fan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Evert_(horse)

edited to add: Just saw there were some Evert-related posts deleted here... hope I didn't cross a line. Tried to keep it G-rated!

dryrunguy
05-01-2008, 04:03 PM
I would've pegged you for a Chris Evert fan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Evert_(horse)

edited to add: Just saw there were some Evert-related posts deleted here... hope I didn't cross a line. Tried to keep it G-rated!

You forget... I was only 6 years old then... You were in college about that time, no?

Tscott415
05-01-2008, 04:14 PM
1,500 on Pyro
500 on Monba
1,000 on Denis of Cork
2,000 on Big Brown
500 on Eight Belles

Charlie02123
05-01-2008, 04:48 PM
Here are the odds we will use for the Kentucky Derby:

Post Position - Horse - Odds

10. Colonel John - 4/1
20. Big Brown - 4/1

You begin with $10,000. Bets are due an hour before the race. Any bets on horses that pull out before the race begins will be returned.

Any questions?

For now, 5000 each on Colonel John and Big Brown. Woot woot!

dryrunguy
05-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Salmon, just to be clear... You get $10K to start. You only get money for win, place and show. So once you spend it all and if they don't win, place or show, you're done, right?

ptmcmahon
05-01-2008, 05:10 PM
And we can spend our winnings next round right?

oohsalmon
05-01-2008, 09:58 PM
Salmon, just to be clear... You get $10K to start. You only get money for win, place and show. So once you spend it all and if they don't win, place or show, you're done, right?

Right, you only get $10K to start, with no other extra money coming in. So you might not want to bet ALL your money on the first race.


And we can spend our winnings next round right?

Right :).

dryrunguy
05-02-2008, 04:09 AM
Thanks, Salmon!

BTW, everyone.... They're calling for 16 hours of heavy rain starting sometime today in Louisville... It SHOULD clear up before post time on Saturday, but there's a good chance of a fairly slow track.

Jack
05-02-2008, 05:01 AM
$2000 - Big Brown
$1000 - Smooth Air
$500 - Colonel John
$500 - Gayego

TennisAnyone74
05-02-2008, 06:36 AM
I know nothing about horse racing or pole position or anything else. So I'm basing my bets on my tried and true way: which names appeal to me. With that said, here are my bets:

$1,000 on Big Brown
$ 800 on Eight Belles
$ 700 on Court Vision
$ 400 on Bob Black Jack
$ 400 on Cowboy Cal

TA

oohsalmon
05-02-2008, 11:23 AM
1000 on Big Brown
500 on Z Fortune
500 on Gayego
500 on Colonel John
1000 on Pyro

JTContinental
05-02-2008, 04:41 PM
And we can spend our winnings next round right?

The Kentucky Derby has more than one round?

dryrunguy
05-02-2008, 05:03 PM
The Kentucky Derby has more than one round?

Only if you drink too many mint julips. ;)

oohsalmon
05-02-2008, 06:16 PM
The Kentucky Derby has more than one round?

Preakness, Belmont Stakes :) This contest runs through the Triple Crown.

ptmcmahon
05-02-2008, 10:26 PM
Count me as one of the few not on the Big Brown wagon.

Colonel John 2000
Pyro 2000
Visionare 1000
Gayego 1000
Eight Belles 500
Tale of Ekati 400
Big Brown 100 (just in case, not that I'd win much)

(hope that's not too many picks!)

oohsalmon
05-03-2008, 03:54 AM
If anyone wants to play in this contest but doesn't want to bet until the Preakness or Belmont (holding is an option), I'd prefer that you say that in the thread :)

nelslus
05-03-2008, 09:11 AM
I don't know nothin' about no horse racin'. But, what the hell:

$2,000 Big Brown
$1,000 Pyro
$1,000 Col. John
$1,000 Big Truck (this was my man's pick)
$500 Gayego (HAVE to go there)
$500 Cool Coal Man

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 03:06 PM
Z Fortune IS a gray colt! Woo hoo! 18-1! Watch out! :) I've gotta add him to my team!

Edit: I just canned Smooth Air for Z Fortune. Now watch Smooth Air win.

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 03:21 PM
Big Brown is a GREAT horse. Broke from the 20th post... No horse is supposed to be able to win from that post in a field of 20 horses. Congratulations to his camp.

But Eight Belles, the filly who finished second, is down on the track. This doesn't normally turn out well. :( Saying a prayer for her.

TennisAnyone74
05-03-2008, 03:30 PM
Big Brown is a GREAT horse. Broke from the 20th post... No horse is supposed to be able to win from that post in a field of 20 horses. Congratulations to his camp.

But Eight Belles, the filly who finished second, is down on the track. This doesn't normally turn out well. :( Saying a prayer for her.

So the race has been run? Who finished 3rd?

TA

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 03:35 PM
So the race has been run? Who finished 3rd?

TA

Denis of Cork was third.

It's raining hard here.... My satellite went out right after the race... Anyone know if Eight Belles was destroyed?

oohsalmon
05-03-2008, 03:36 PM
1. Big Brown
2. Eight Belles (who I hear has already been euthanized :()
3. Denis of Cork

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 03:37 PM
Eight Belles was euthanized. :( Compound fractures on both front legs... It happened AFTER the race was over when the horses were cooling down on a normal gate. Horrible.

TennisAnyone74
05-03-2008, 03:39 PM
1. Big Brown
2. Eight Belles (who I hear has already been euthanized :()
3. Denis of Cork

How sad! Why did she have to be euthanized?

TA

TennisAnyone74
05-03-2008, 03:41 PM
Eight Belles was euthanized. :( Compound fractures on both front legs... It happened AFTER the race was over when the horses were cooling down on a normal gate. Horrible.

Oh! That is truly tragic for her and her camp - running the gamut of emotions from exhileration to unbelief to grief.

TA

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 03:44 PM
Oh! That is truly tragic for her and her camp - running the gamut of emotions from exhileration to unbelief to grief.

TA

What's even more sad is that it took the fourth person who spoke during the trophy presentation, after the Governor of Kentucky, to even mention Eight Belles. And we get on tennis players for being classless? :(

oohsalmon
05-03-2008, 03:49 PM
The Payouts:

20. Big Brown - 4/1
5. Eight Belles - 8/1
16. Denis of Cork - 7/2

Your Leaderboard:


Charlie02123 - $25,000
Tscott415 (who bet on five horses, and hit the top three!) - $23,500
TennisAnyone74 - $18,900
dryrunguy - $16,500
Jack - $16,000
nelslus - $15,000
oohsalmon - $11,500
ptmcmahon - $8,000
JTContinental - $0

Darcy
05-03-2008, 03:51 PM
What's even more sad is that it took the fourth person who spoke during the trophy presentation, after the Governor of Kentucky, to even mention Eight Belles. And we get on tennis players for being classless? :(

Ugh. I turned it off after she was euthanized, so I didn't see this. I had grown to like horse racing in recent years, but after Barbaro, and now this...I just feel sick. :( I don't think I can watch this anymore.

Congrats to Big Brown, though...

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 03:55 PM
Ugh. I turned it off after she was euthanized, so I didn't see this. I had grown to like horse racing in recent years, but after Barbaro, and now this...I just feel sick. :( I don't think I can watch this anymore.

Congrats to Big Brown, though...

I always panic a bit at the break from the gate when the horses are jockeying for position. It's arguably the most dangerous part of the race.

I have NEVER in my life seen a horse develop a compound fracture, much less on two front legs, AFTER the race was over and was galloping at an easy gate. I have never heard of such a thing. It would be easier to get struck by lightning.

oohsalmon
05-03-2008, 04:00 PM
I hope some of you actually called your bookies this weekend...

People did incredibly well on the whole :)

But this ending really puts a huge damper on everything :(.

Kirkus
05-03-2008, 04:02 PM
I always panic a bit at the break from the gate when the horses are jockeying for position. It's arguably the most dangerous part of the race.

I have NEVER in my life seen a horse develop a compound fracture, much less on two front legs, AFTER the race was over and was galloping at an easy gate. I have never heard of such a thing. It would be easier to get struck by lightning.

Agreed on both points. We were trying to figure out how this could happen. Did she try and stop suddenly? Was she spooked?

Then they show the video clip and she's just galloping along then goes down. After such a phenomenal race she ran. This is just tragic.

What Darcy said, Barbero last year, now Eight Belles this year. I'm sorry, I enjoy horse racing, but you really have to question what the training and racing does to these animals.

Tragic. Just tragic.

Darcy
05-03-2008, 04:04 PM
I always panic a bit at the break from the gate when the horses are jockeying for position. It's arguably the most dangerous part of the race.

I have NEVER in my life seen a horse develop a compound fracture, much less on two front legs, AFTER the race was over and was galloping at an easy gate. I have never heard of such a thing. It would be easier to get struck by lightning.

Are they sure when it happened? It doesn't make sense, you're right. I did not want to see this happening on replay, so I turned it off.

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 04:15 PM
Agreed on both points. We were trying to figure out how this could happen. Did she try and stop suddenly? Was she spooked?

Then they show the video clip and she's just galloping along then goes down. After such a phenomenal race she ran. This is just tragic.

What Darcy said, Barbero last year, now Eight Belles this year. I'm sorry, I enjoy horse racing, but you really have to question what the training and racing does to these animals.

Tragic. Just tragic.

Her fall spooked Big Brown! When she went down about a minute after the race (I'm guessing on the time), it spooked Big Brown and he threw Kent Desormeux! That's when they showed Eight Belles flat on her side on the track.

Thoroughbreds are incredibly fragile. It's a miracle this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. But never in my life have I seen this happen after a race. I've never read about such a thing either. And I've following horse racing from a distance since I was about 8 years old (I got hooked by the duel between Affirmed and Alydar in 1978... a bunch of they're races are on YouTube, BTW. All of them are absolutely thrilling.)

Darcy
05-03-2008, 04:28 PM
Just read this quote from her jockey:

"When we passed the wire I stood up. She started galloping funny. I tried to pull her up. That's when she went down," a distraught Saez said.

Does this mean it probably happened during the race, then?

Jack
05-03-2008, 04:29 PM
Eight Belles :(

I shut it off too. It bugged me that there was so much celebration happening when she first went down, and even after she was euthanized. I thought they could have been a little more muted in their joy, all things considered.

ptmcmahon
05-03-2008, 04:30 PM
Are they sure when it happened? It doesn't make sense, you're right. I did not want to see this happening on replay, so I turned it off.

Yeah, they had a clip of it just where she's just going off the picture, so all you could really see was her starting to fall.

ptmcmahon
05-03-2008, 04:34 PM
Your Leaderboard:


[FONT=Palatino Linotype]Charlie02123 - $25,000
Tscott415 (who bet on five horses, and hit the top three!) - $23,500
TennisAnyone74 - $18,900
dryrunguy - $16,500
Jack - $16,000
nelslus - $15,000
oohsalmon - $11,500
ptmcmahon - $8,000
JTContinental - $0

Edit: ignore this, I was wrong

JTContinental
05-03-2008, 05:51 PM
Tragic. Talk about taking all the fun out of something.

Ti-Amie
05-03-2008, 06:42 PM
The first Derby I watch live in years and it's shades of Ruffian all over again.

Big Brown looks look a great horse. He could've run the Belmont today.

Great race except for the tragedy.

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 06:52 PM
The first Derby I watch live in years and it's shades of Ruffian all over again.

Big Brown looks look a great horse. He could've run the Belmont today.

Great race except for the tragedy.

Yup! I haven't been THIS impressed by a horse in a while. I figured all of the hype was just that--hype. But this horse has a real shot at the Triple Crown, based on what he showed today. It could have gone the Belmont distance and no one would have caught him.

It would probably take a horse with monstrous closing abilities that wasn't in the field today to deny him the triple crown. Those types sometimes pop up at Belmont. And of course, any horse is capable of a really bad day at the office or a bad trip on any day. But given that he shot from the 20th post position today and that the fields for the last two races will just keep getting smaller.... I really love his chances.

I just wished he wasn't owned by about 100 people. :o A very impressive animal, though. And he's undefeated in four races now, right? If that's true, that might be the biggest strike against him to get the Crown.

Ti-Amie
05-03-2008, 07:05 PM
It was that 20th post position that surprised me Dry. Then they said that was the position they wanted. The Preakness is traditionally a small field IIRC. It'll be interesting to see if they put him on the inside won't it?

BTW did you rev up your motorboat when you saw the wife of the winning jockey jumping up and down? After that guy congratulated her she had to pull her dress back up.
Talk about a wardrobe malfunction ready to happen...:lipsrsealed:

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 07:19 PM
It was that 20th post position that surprised me Dry. Then they said that was the position they wanted. The Preakness is traditionally a small field IIRC. It'll be interesting to see if they put him on the inside won't it?

BTW did you rev up your motorboat when you saw the wife of the winning jockey jumping up and down? After that guy congratulated her she had to pull her dress back up.
Talk about a wardrobe malfunction ready to happen...:lipsrsealed:

Let's just say I noticed... ;) But I was kind of looking out for her... Since I've seen her before. :lipsrsealed:

I was mystified by the positive vibes the Big Brown was sending out re: the 20th post position. That's usually the death knell at the Derby. Plus, it's not very often that a betting favorite actually wins the Derby. It happened a few years back, but before that, you have to go back like 15-20 years since the betting favorite won the Derby. Which is why Big Brown was among the first horses I eliminated from my betting strategy. I nearly put him in this afternoon after realizing that, even though he couldn't win, he still might place or show. But after watching him today, I feel like a major idiot. Sometimes, ever so rarely, hype is on the mark.

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 07:26 PM
Here's the Contender Spotlight on Eight Belles that was posted on You Tube leading up to today's race. It's a nice piece and talks a little bit about the guts that Eight Belles brought to the party in her races.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQU_BEiNRVI

Ti-Amie
05-03-2008, 07:26 PM
He's going to be the heavy favorite for the Preakness. If they give him the outside pole position I'll be surprised.

What did he pay?

BTW he's not gelded is he?

Ti-Amie
05-03-2008, 07:28 PM
When they did the replay I noticed how strongly Eight Bells ran in the stretch. Any other time she wins the stretch run and the race. She had two or three lengths on the show horse. Did the jockey overdo it?

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 07:32 PM
He's going to be the heavy favorite for the Preakness. If they give him the outside pole position I'll be surprised.

What did he pay?

BTW he's not gelded is he?

Can't say for sure, Amie... But with something like close to 100 owners, I can't believe he would be. That many people behind one horse HAD to have future stud fees on the brain.

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 07:37 PM
When they did the replay I noticed how strongly Eight Bells ran in the stretch. Any other time she wins the stretch run and the race. She had two or three lengths on the show horse. Did the jockey overdo it?

I guess that's always a possibility. But I can't think of a single thing a jockey could really do that could cause a compound fracture in both front legs. I'm betting it was just one of those freak things that happen sometimes.

Her camp, however, has to be really proud of the kind of race she ran. It's not often that a horse can sit that close off the pace in a distance like the Derby's and still hang in there at the end. And today, we saw two of them who did that.

In a lot of ways, this Derby broke a lot of the rules. And to think that Big Brown and Eight Belles went 1-2 after being just a few lengths back off what was a pretty blistering pace for the first half of the race is really, really, REALLY astounding. The Derby and Belmont are supposed to belong to the closers who spent the first half of the race about 10-15 lengths back.

ptmcmahon
05-03-2008, 07:38 PM
She slowed a bit, but seemed to have caught a second wind. Still no real good footage or story of what exactly happened besides her just going down.

As for Big Brown, yes he'll be a big favorite for the Preakness...but before every crowns him, remember the Belmont is a 100% different beast. Of course, you have to cheer for the triple crown though!

dryrunguy
05-03-2008, 07:41 PM
She slowed a bit, but seemed to have caught a second wind. Still no real good footage or story of what exactly happened besides her just going down.

As for Big Brown, yes he'll be a big favorite for the Preakness...but before every crowns him, remember the Belmont is a 100% different beast. Of course, you have to cheer for the triple crown though!

Big Brown is also a different beast, based on what I saw today.

I want to see at least one more Triple Crown winner before I die... It's been 30 years! There have been a few that came close, but I bet THIS horse can close the deal. I'll actually be really disappointed if he doesn't.

Ti-Amie
05-03-2008, 07:54 PM
PT I understand what you mean but I'm with Dry on this one. That horse had to be held tightly or else he was taking off again. The Belmont is really really tough and the pace won't be as fast as it was today.

Let's get past the Preakness first though. That's always the freakiest of the three.

Charlie02123
05-03-2008, 07:55 PM
The Payouts:

Charlie02123 - $25,000
Tscott415 (who bet on five horses, and hit the top three!) - $23,500
TennisAnyone74 - $18,900
dryrunguy - $16,500
Jack - $16,000
nelslus - $15,000
oohsalmon - $11,500
ptmcmahon - $8,000
JTContinental - $0

Yay! I'm so excited. I plan on having a gambling problem once I hit 21.

Charlie02123
05-03-2008, 07:55 PM
I can't believe 7 of 9 of us made money. How odd.

ptmcmahon
05-04-2008, 11:23 AM
Based on the rules, I'm not entirely surprised, especially with the favorite winning.

dryrunguy
05-05-2008, 06:25 PM
Sorry. Had to post the full piece on this one.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/05/peta-demanding.html

PETA demanding changes after Eight Belles' death

Buzz up! (http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/usatoday/http%253A%252F%252Fblogs.usatoday.com%252Fgameon%2 52F2008%252F05%252Fpeta-demanding.html%253Fcsp%253D34)
Like this story? Share it with Yahoo! Buzz
http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/images/2008/05/05/8bellesforblog.jpg (http://blogs.usatoday.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/05/8bellesforblog.jpg) Because of the Kentucky Derby collapse and death (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horses/2008-05-04-eight-belles-cover_N.htm) of filly Eight Belles, the horse racing world is about to find out what PETA's spurs feel like.
PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) has called for the suspension (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horses/2008-05-04-2778363836_x.htm) and investigation of Eight Belles jockey Gabriel Saez, and also has started an online petition (http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/eight_belles) to change the rules of thoroughbred racing.

Flatly ignoring PETA's suggestions could be risky for a sport where interest has steadily waned, and which is under siege after a succession of high-profile horses dying on the track.

PETA flexed considerable muscle in the sports world last year, raising the outrage about the Michael Vick dogfighting charges that sent the Atlanta Falcons quarterback to prison.

PETA's four demands are:

1) No racing or training for a thoroughbred until it turns 3 years old. The organization contends the animals' legs aren't fully developed until then.

2) No more racing on dirt tracks. The group says the synthetic surfaces now used at Keeneland in Lexington, Ky., and at California tracks are far safer and result in fewer equine breakdowns and fatalities.

3) Cap the number of times a horse races each year.

4) Ban whipping. PETA says that when jockeys flail horses with a riding crop the animals can be forced beyond their physical limits.

The group also wants Eight Belles jockey Saez questioned.

"What we really want to know, did he feel anything along the way?" PETA spokeswoman Kathy Guillermo said. "If he didn't, then we can probably blame the fact that they're allowed to whip the horses mercilessly."

Kirkus
05-05-2008, 07:21 PM
Sorry. Had to post the full piece on this one.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/05/peta-demanding.html

PETA demanding changes after Eight Belles' death

Buzz up! (http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/usatoday/http%253A%252F%252Fblogs.usatoday.com%252Fgameon%2 52F2008%252F05%252Fpeta-demanding.html%253Fcsp%253D34)
Like this story? Share it with Yahoo! Buzz
http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/images/2008/05/05/8bellesforblog.jpg (http://blogs.usatoday.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/05/8bellesforblog.jpg) Because of the Kentucky Derby collapse and death (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horses/2008-05-04-eight-belles-cover_N.htm) of filly Eight Belles, the horse racing world is about to find out what PETA's spurs feel like.
PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) has called for the suspension (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horses/2008-05-04-2778363836_x.htm) and investigation of Eight Belles jockey Gabriel Saez, and also has started an online petition (http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/eight_belles) to change the rules of thoroughbred racing.

Flatly ignoring PETA's suggestions could be risky for a sport where interest has steadily waned, and which is under siege after a succession of high-profile horses dying on the track.

PETA flexed considerable muscle in the sports world last year, raising the outrage about the Michael Vick dogfighting charges that sent the Atlanta Falcons quarterback to prison.

PETA's four demands are:

1) No racing or training for a thoroughbred until it turns 3 years old. The organization contends the animals' legs aren't fully developed until then.

2) No more racing on dirt tracks. The group says the synthetic surfaces now used at Keeneland in Lexington, Ky., and at California tracks are far safer and result in fewer equine breakdowns and fatalities.

3) Cap the number of times a horse races each year.

4) Ban whipping. PETA says that when jockeys flail horses with a riding crop the animals can be forced beyond their physical limits.

The group also wants Eight Belles jockey Saez questioned.

"What we really want to know, did he feel anything along the way?" PETA spokeswoman Kathy Guillermo said. "If he didn't, then we can probably blame the fact that they're allowed to whip the horses mercilessly."

I have to say that I don't have a problem with any of those demands. If all stables have to abide by the same rules, then it remains fair.

And there's nothing wrong with protecting animals.

dryrunguy
05-05-2008, 07:36 PM
I have to say that I don't have a problem with any of those demands. If all stables have to abide by the same rules, then it remains fair.

And there's nothing wrong with protecting animals.

I haven't really thought so much about their demands. But I suspect the jockey is getting a raw deal. Animals are instinctive creatures. If she had been injured during the race, I'm betting she would have pulled up and not finished. No matter how much he "whipped" her, if she was hurt, she wouldn't have continued. Animals are animals, but most animals aren't completely stupid. They're completely instinctual. I really believe it was just a completely freak accident AFTER the race. But of course, I could be wrong.

About the demands, though:

1) If they're going to go that route and insist that a horse not train or race until they're fully developed, then someone should be demanding the same for young human athletes. No more pee wee football or high school football, no more little league baseball, no more junior tennis tournaments, no more junior varsity or hight school basketball, etc. One could also argue that proper training might actually reduce the risk of injury as the body matures.

2) I don't know enough about this to comment.

3) No problem here.

4) No problem here, either. The industry could easily develop alternative methods for motivation. And a really good horse already has the desire to compete and win. They know the deal.

Personally, I think PETA is just trying to capitalize upon a tragic situation to get its message out. That's fine. But going after the jockey, I believe, is horribly inappropriate. No one knows the mind of that horse, and no one knows the intention of the jockey. Even if the jockey wanted to win the Derby at almost any cost, the reality is that there was no catching Big Brown (both the jockey and Eight Belles knew that). More importantly, that jockey lost a sure mount and a substantial amount of money for his share of future purses that would have certainly, over time, superceded his earnings for one big race. And a jockey would also understand the loss of earnings for the owners of future Eight Belles progeny, which would have certainly topped at least six digits per foal.

Now, can a jockey process all of that properly in a split second? Given the adrenaline? Maybe not. But it's reprehensible for PETA to suggest he's at fault based on nothing but self-serving motives and speculation. That's just very, very wrong.

Charlie02123
05-05-2008, 07:47 PM
Now, can a jockey process all of that properly in a split second? Given the adrenaline? Maybe not. But it's reprehensible for PETA to suggest he's at fault based on nothing but self-serving motives and speculation. That's just very, very wrong.

Agreed. He's probably already devastated. That has to be a horrible experience.

Kirkus
05-05-2008, 08:09 PM
I haven't really thought so much about their demands. But I suspect the jockey is getting a raw deal. Animals are instinctive creatures. If she had been injured during the race, I'm betting she would have pulled up and not finished. No matter how much he "whipped" her, if she was hurt, she wouldn't have continued. Animals are animals, but most animals aren't completely stupid. They're completely instinctual. I really believe it was just a completely freak accident AFTER the race. But of course, I could be wrong.

About the demands, though:

1) If they're going to go that route and insist that a horse not train or race until they're fully developed, then someone should be demanding the same for young human athletes. No more pee wee football or high school football, no more little league baseball, no more junior tennis tournaments, no more junior varsity or hight school basketball, etc. One could also argue that proper training might actually reduce the risk of injury as the body matures.

2) I don't know enough about this to comment.

3) No problem here.

4) No problem here, either. The industry could easily develop alternative methods for motivation. And a really good horse already has the desire to compete and win. They know the deal.

Personally, I think PETA is just trying to capitalize upon a tragic situation to get its message out. That's fine. But going after the jockey, I believe, is horribly inappropriate. No one knows the mind of that horse, and no one knows the intention of the jockey. Even if the jockey wanted to win the Derby at almost any cost, the reality is that there was no catching Big Brown (both the jockey and Eight Belles knew that). More importantly, that jockey lost a sure mount and a substantial amount of money for his share of future purses that would have certainly, over time, superceded his earnings for one big race. And a jockey would also understand the loss of earnings for the owners of future Eight Belles progeny, which would have certainly topped at least six digits per foal.

Now, can a jockey process all of that properly in a split second? Given the adrenaline? Maybe not. But it's reprehensible for PETA to suggest he's at fault based on nothing but self-serving motives and speculation. That's just very, very wrong.


Agreed. He's probably already devastated. That has to be a horrible experience.

Assuming we know what kind of man Saez is or how he feels notwithstanding, I don't think the request that he be suspended during an investigation is necessarily out of line. They aren't demanding he be banned from horse racing. And personally, I think an investigation is called for.

Also, I'm not sure the comparison between horse training and pee-wee football holds a lot of water. Sounds a little like apples and oranges. I'm just sayin'.

Having said all that... beside the fact that my first job as a teenager was cleaning animal cages at a pet shop, I have zero experience with animals, let alone race horses. And I don't really feel that strong about this one way or another. It just seems to me that PETA's demands and suspension request pending an investigation don't seem out of line.

dryrunguy
05-05-2008, 08:19 PM
Assuming we know what kind of man Saez is or how he feels notwithstanding, I don't think the request that he be suspended during an investigation is necessarily out of line. They aren't demanding he be banned from horse racing. And personally, I think an investigation is called for.

Also, I'm not sure the comparison between horse training and pee-wee football holds a lot of water. Sounds a little like apples and oranges. I'm just sayin'.

Having said all that... beside the fact that my first job as a teenager was cleaning animal cages at a pet shop, I have zero experience with animals, let alone race horses. And I don't really feel that strong about this one way or another. It just seems to me that PETA's demands and suspension request pending an investigation don't seem out of line.

I'm not sure what a suspension would entail. If that means he can't ride and continue to make a living until an investigation is complete, that seems overly harsh to me. Especially since there's no evidence that he did anything other than what has been standard practice in the industry for decades. If PETA has a problem with the industry standard, then they should take on the industry, not the individual. He was just doing his job.

Whether or not that's an ethical job is a different discussion, and if it was really THAT important to PETA, then they should have raised the issue when they were so incensed about it last year, or the year before, or 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, so that they could have changed the industry standard and supposedly prevented Eight Belles death (which I still say had nothing to do with the jockey). That's why I think they're just using this beautiful horse's demise for personal gain and self-serving motives. And I usually like PETA, at least when they're saying something remotely sensible.

As for the comparison, my real point was this... What's more important? Animal life or human life? Sure, there's a huge cognitive difference between kids and young horses... But the potential for severe injury, or even death, exists in young humans. I just think it's odd that young bodies all over the U.S. are getting beaten up all over the place in sports, and some kids have died as a result of freak accidents... But you don't see anyone calling for the end of sports involving kids... Or the end of playgrounds. Just sayin'...

Personally, I bet that delaying any training until the age of 3 would actually INCREASE the risk of injury for thoroughbreds, not reduce it, though I have absolutely no evidence to back that up since it's never been done. The body should strengthen as it grows rather than after it's already grown.

Kirkus
05-05-2008, 10:19 PM
I just thought I'd share my thoughts on the PETA story.

Like I said, I'm not married to either side of the argument. You, obviously are. And having much more experience with animals than I do, I would trust your judgment in the matter before even my own.

dryrunguy
05-05-2008, 10:35 PM
I just thought I'd share my thoughts on the PETA story.

Like I said, I'm not married to either side of the argument. You, obviously are. And having much more experience with animals than I do, I would trust your judgment in the matter before even my own.

I love that you shared your thoughts, kirkus! Did I come across heavy handed? I hope not, because that wasn't my intention.

I'm just worried about this jockey, because I figure he's probably just trying to make a living like the rest of us. And I think he's getting a raw deal.

I also don't think anything will come of it. I was just intrigued by the story. :)

dryrunguy
05-07-2008, 07:58 AM
Eight Belles' trainer denies fallen filly was on steroids
By BOB LENTZ – 16 hours ago

STANTON, Del. (AP) — The trainer of Eight Belles is certain the filly was never on steroids, and has ordered tests to prove it.

Larry Jones said Tuesday he wanted to dispel any suggestion the Kentucky Derby runner-up was on performance-enhancing drugs. Eight Belles was euthanized after breaking both front ankles Saturday, a quarter-mile after the finish at Churchill Downs.

"I guarantee there were no steroids ever on the horse," Jones said at a news conference at Delaware Park, site of the filly's first win.

Eight Belles' owner, Rick Porter, said the preliminary necropsy result showed the death came as a result of the fracture of the filly's two front cannon bones.

Jones was adamant that the necropsy will show no use of performance enhancing drugs, and hoped it would uncover any previously undiscovered "soundness issues."

Jones is still emotional about the loss of the horse three days after the Derby. He broke down three times during the 30-minute news conference while recalling the filly.

But the trainer's voice rose when he said he was responding to unspecified criticism he heard on radio programs while returning from Kentucky to Delaware that his horse must have been on steroids because she was so large.

"We're taking a lot of abuse out there. ... We're being accused of steroid abuse because she was so large," he said. "I can tell you that Mr. Porter goes to the sale to look for good horses and that's one of the things you look for — a horse that's big enough, strong enough and fast enough to compete in big races."


Full article: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ifySBgx8dfwPFoX97JRBgX3vPX5QD90GDPF04

*****

Sad. I know people want answers to this tragedy, but this is really uncalled for.

Ti-Amie
05-07-2008, 08:12 AM
I finally saw a pic of Eight Belles as she collapsed. Sickening.

The jockey should not be taking the weight for a system that breeds huge animals with spindly legs. The surprise is that this doesn't happen more often.

Just my .02cents.

dryrunguy
05-07-2008, 08:17 AM
I finally saw a pic of Eight Belles as she collapsed. Sickening.

The jockey should not be taking the weight for a system that breeds huge animals with spindly legs. The surprise is that this doesn't happen more often.

Just my .02cents.

Absolutely right. Actually, maybe it happens more often than we think but it never gets any attention because it doesn't happen in big races.

Not that I want to hijack this thread a bit, but honestly, I've always wondered what REALLY happens to all those racing geldings after they can no longer race... It ain't cheap to feed a horse that earns nothing and doesn't reproduce.

oohsalmon
05-09-2008, 11:05 AM
Preakness Stakes Odds:

Big Brown 1/3
Harlem Rocker 9/2
Behindatthebar 14/1
Denis of Cork 16/1
Samba Rooster 16/1
Colonel John 16/1
Bob Black Jack 20/1
Tale of Ekati 25/1
Recapturetheglory 33/1

I have not been able to find starting gate positions, although with a field this small it isn't nearly as significant. If anyone finds it please post it.

Tscott415
05-09-2008, 11:12 AM
Big Brown $7,500
Harlem Rocker $3,000
Behindatthebar $5,000
Denis of Cork $2,000
Tale of Ekati $500

TennisAnyone74
05-09-2008, 12:11 PM
When will this race be run?

TA

patrick
05-09-2008, 03:44 PM
When will this race be run?

TA

Believe it is a week from Saturday if I am not mistaken

ptmcmahon
05-10-2008, 08:20 PM
I have not been able to find starting gate positions, although with a field this small it isn't nearly as significant. If anyone finds it please post it.

Have they even been drawn yet?

Wow...only 1/3 for Big Brown? Knew he'd be a big favorite, but that's pretty huge!

And yes it is a week away. Think Belmont is 2 more weeks after that one.

dryrunguy
05-16-2008, 11:30 PM
Salmon, the lineup at the Preakness has changed completely.

Anyway, I'm going to do the following:

$5000 on Macho Again
$7000 on Big Brown
$1000 on Racecar Rhapsody
$3000 on Gayego

Edit: Changed amount on Big Brown, bailed on Tres Borrachos, and added Racecar Rhapsody.

ptmcmahon
05-17-2008, 05:59 AM
Yeah, Behindatthebar has pulled out, and at least a couple new have been entered. Here's what the official site has right now:

Macho Again 30-1
Tres Borrachos 30-1
Icabad Crane 30-1
Yankee Bravo 15-1
Racecar Rhapsody 30-1
Big Brown 1-2
Kentucky Bear 15-1
Stevil 30-1
Riley Tucker 30-1
Giant Moon 30-1
Gayego 8-1
Hey Byrn 20-1

Jack
05-17-2008, 06:43 AM
$8000 Big Brown
$3000 Gayego
$2000 Kentucky Bear
$1000 Hey Byrn
$1000 Giant Moon

nelslus
05-17-2008, 09:08 AM
$9,000 Big Brown
$1,000 Gayego
$1,000 Macho Again
$1,000 Giant Moon (WON'T say which TAT member this pick is dedicated to. :shocked:)

(I truly have no idea what the hell to do with these bets.)

TennisAnyone74
05-17-2008, 10:47 AM
Preakness:

Big Brown: $7,500
Racecar Rhapsody: $2,500
Giant Moon: $1,500
Kentucky Bear: $1,000
Tres Borrachos: $400

TA

oohsalmon
05-17-2008, 11:21 AM
11,000 on Big Brown

Because I don't know what else to do :)

ptmcmahon
05-17-2008, 11:27 AM
Salmon, what odds are we using? Your original ones, or the ones from the Preakness site?

oohsalmon
05-17-2008, 11:31 AM
Salmon, what odds are we using? Your original ones, or the ones from the Preakness site?

Um, I guess the later ones. :confused:

ptmcmahon
05-17-2008, 11:41 AM
Good, because one of my picks (yet to come) wasn't on the original list.

dryrunguy
05-17-2008, 11:41 AM
Um, I guess the later ones. :confused:

I vote for what PT posted earlier. Those were the odds this morning.

Unless, of course, Macho Again wins... He's now at 40-1. :) I hate being such a sucker for the grey colts. :o

ptmcmahon
05-17-2008, 11:57 AM
Alright, since I'm near last I'm not gonna win it by betting it all on Big Brown (who should win easy.) So...


Kentucky Bear $4,000
Giant Moon $2,000
Hey Byrn $1,900
Big Brown $100 (just in case the other three go down)

ptmcmahon
05-17-2008, 03:19 PM
Unofficially:

Big Brown
Macho Again
Icabod Crane

(good thing I made the $100 bet on Big Brown...guess I have $20 left for next round!)

Not even close...Big Brown had no problem, and seemed to have a lot left too - maybe he has a shot at Belmont!

dryrunguy
05-17-2008, 03:22 PM
Damn. Racecar Rhapsody was fourth. AGAIN!!!!!

I'm thrilled about Macho Again, though. :) Woo hoo!

The problem now is that Big Brown might win the Triple Crown by default. No one of substance wants to challenge him.

But Belmont could be a different story.

ptmcmahon
05-17-2008, 03:27 PM
Nice picks Dry! You nearly nailed the top 4...you should be quite comfortably ahead now, right?

I think I'm quite comfortably last, and by a mile. I'm the equivalent of the non Big Brown horses in today's race - not even close.

dryrunguy
05-17-2008, 03:31 PM
Nice picks Dry! You nearly nailed the top 4...you should be quite comfortably ahead now, right?

I think I'm quite comfortably last, and by a mile. I'm the equivalent of the non Big Brown horses in today's race - not even close.

I have no idea how this works... That's up to Salmon. But I was optimistic that Macho Again would pan out for me since he has a reputation as a strong closer... And being grey really helped. :)

I really expected more of Kentucky Bear, though. He just didn't materialize. That was the horse that frightened me.

ptmcmahon
05-17-2008, 03:33 PM
You and me both! I imagine you have a big lead because I think you dropped more on a non Big Brown horse than anyone else - Macho Again - who will be the best payout in this system!

My three picks were 6,7,8 - enough to stick around and tease me.

Jack
05-17-2008, 03:37 PM
After the Derby, I'm just glad all the horses finished safely. :)

dryrunguy
05-17-2008, 03:38 PM
After the Derby, I'm just glad all the horses finished safely. :)

Amen.

oohsalmon
05-18-2008, 12:58 AM
After the Derby, I'm just glad all the horses finished safely. :)

I felt that way right after Sharapova-Schnyder :)

ptmcmahon
05-18-2008, 03:42 AM
I felt that way right after Sharapova-Schnyder :)

Except these are cows, not horses!

That could be the next big sport...cow racing!

Jack
05-18-2008, 05:51 AM
I felt that way right after Sharapova-Schnyder :)

So there's no truth to the rumor that Rainer had to put down Patty after the loss?

nelslus
05-18-2008, 10:59 AM
HEY, SALMON: Quit playing around and figure out where we all stand in this freakin' contest. Get to work, mister. :cheesy:

ptmcmahon
05-18-2008, 11:32 AM
Here are the current standings:

First - Dry
Everyone Else
Last - ptmcmahon

oohsalmon
05-18-2008, 11:57 AM
The Leaderboard Before the Preakness:

Charlie02123 - $25,000
Tscott415 - $23,500
TennisAnyone74 - $18,900
dryrunguy - $16,500
Jack - $16,000
nelslus - $15,000
oohsalmon - $11,500
ptmcmahon - $8,000
JTContinental - $0The Preakness Payouts:

Win: Big Brown 1-2
Place: Macho Again 15-1
Show: Icabod Crane 10-1

The Leaderboard Before The Belmont Stakes

dryrunguy ($16,500 + $74,500) = $91,000
nelslus ($15,000 + $17,500) = $32,500
Charlie02123 ($25,000 + $0) = $25,000
TennisAnyone74 ($18,900 - $1,650) = $17,250
oohsalmon ($11,500 + $5,500) = $17,000
Tscott415 ($23,500 - $6,750) = $16,750
Jack ($16,000 - $3,000) = $13,000
ptmcmahon ($8,000 - $7,850) = $150
JTContinental ($0 + $0) = $0

dryrunguy
05-18-2008, 12:01 PM
:thumbsup:

But I thought Macho Again was 30-1? :cheesy: But that's fine. I'll take it. :)

ptmcmahon
05-18-2008, 12:18 PM
Yes, but second place only gets 1/2 of the payoff. Third place gets 1/3 of the payoff.

Imagine if we had used odds at post time - Big Brown went off 1:5 and Macho Again was 40:1 wasn't he? You'd be even farther ahead. As the results show, my strategy was sound, but I got the wrong horses.

dryrunguy
05-18-2008, 12:26 PM
Yes, but second place only gets 1/2 of the payoff. Third place gets 1/3 of the payoff.

Imagine if we had used odds at post time - Big Brown went off 1:5 and Macho Again was 40:1 wasn't he? You'd be even farther ahead. As the results show, my strategy was sound, but I got the wrong horses.

D'oh! Yes, thanks!

I hope no one despairs... As I'm sure I'll find a way to screw this up come Belmont.

I'll get back from my cruise just in time for the Belmont. I'm stoked! But I KNOW I'll screw this up.

Everyone's going to have a big decision to make re: Big Brown. I really do believe that he's a truly great horse... Probably the best in many years. But it's been 30 years since a horse completed the Triple Crown, and there's always some closer that seems to show up for the Belmont that messes everything up for the hopeful.

Still, from what I've seen of Big Brown, he's got a great shot to still hang on at that obscene distance.

ptmcmahon
05-18-2008, 12:56 PM
Shouldn't be too much of a decision really. If anyone wants to win they aren't going to catch you by picking Big Brown, so they need someone else anyways! Unless you spend all your money on BB and he loses...

ptmcmahon
05-18-2008, 01:03 PM
PS ... the shooting the puck over the boards penalty still sucks :( (the penalty itself that is - it was a CORRECT call.)

ptmcmahon
06-01-2008, 12:05 PM
Check out some interesting prop bets at bodog:

Prop Bets at Bodog (http://www.horseswild.com/belmont/odds-bodog.php)

Ex. Will Kent Desormoux whip Big Brown between 1/8 pole and finish (could make some money by saying no like in Preakness, it's +250)

You're only getting -300 to predict he will win triple crown (ie bet $300 and win $100) as Big Brown is 1/3 now. Casino Drive is 2nd favorite for now.

ptmcmahon
06-05-2008, 09:07 AM
Big Brown drew the #1 spot (historically produces the most Belmont winners)

Odds as of yesterday

Big Brown 2-5
Guadalcanal 50-1
Macho Again 20-1
Denis of Cork 12-1
Casino Drive 7-2
Da' Tara 30-1
Tale of Ekati 20-1
Anak Nakal 30-1
Ready's Echo 30-1
Icabad Crane 20-1

oohsalmon
06-05-2008, 09:10 AM
Big Brown drew the #1 spot (historically produces the most Belmont winners)

Odds as of yesterday

Big Brown 2-5
Guadalcanal 50-1
Macho Again 20-1
Denis of Cork 12-1
Casino Drive 7-2
Da' Tara 30-1
Tale of Ekati 20-1
Anak Nakal 30-1
Ready's Echo 30-1
Icabad Crane 20-1

These are hereby locked in as the odds for the contest :).

Tscott415
06-05-2008, 09:22 AM
Everything on Casino Drive

TennisAnyone74
06-05-2008, 12:51 PM
Belmont Stakes:
$6,000 - Macho Again
$6,000 - Ready's Echo
$3,000 - Casino Drive
$2,250 - Big Brown

TA

ptmcmahon
06-05-2008, 11:18 PM
However to spend my last $150? :)

$149 on Macho Again
$1 on Big Brown

Can't finish with zero now can I?

Charlie02123
06-06-2008, 12:19 AM
Denis of Cork 12-1


All 25,000 on Denis of Cork.

ptmcmahon
06-06-2008, 07:24 AM
Glad to see people are going for the win...dry will have to think about who to pick!

dryrunguy
06-06-2008, 07:59 AM
Glad to see people are going for the win...dry will have to think about who to pick!

I'm having a helluva time trying to find any info on the horses. With a distance of 1.5 miles, the longest of the three Triple Crown races, that immediately takes horses of a certain ilk out of the mix. There's no question Big Brown can handle it, assuming his hoof holds up. But it takes a very special kinds of horse to win, place or show at that distance.

Which is why I'm at a complete loss.

nelslus
06-06-2008, 09:49 PM
Big Brown $500
Macho Again $6,000
Denis of Cork $25,000
Icabad Crane $1,000

Charlie02123
06-06-2008, 10:03 PM
All 25,000 on Denis of Cork.

Big Brown $500
Macho Again $6,000
Denis of Cork $25,000
Icabad Crane $1,000

You strategic piece of work! I'll have to change my pick now. ;)

oohsalmon
06-06-2008, 10:05 PM
Everything on Casino Drive.

nelslus
06-06-2008, 10:11 PM
You strategic piece of work! I'll have to change my pick now. ;)

WHY- What-EVAH are you trying to say?!?!? :angel:

OK, OK....I guess subtlety really ISN'T one of my virtues.....

Which means that we'll be going back and forth here until about 30 seconds before the race.

nelslus
06-06-2008, 10:19 PM
Everything on Casino Drive.

OR, does nelslus at the last second put $17,001 on Casino Drive, and then divvy up the rest elsewhere.....who is it more important to beat.....Salmon.....Charlie.....Salmon.....Charlie .....AND, who blinks first.....:ponder:

nelslus
06-06-2008, 10:22 PM
You strategic piece of work! I'll have to change my pick now. ;)

Alternate post: OR.....perhaps this was nelslus' plan all along..... :ponder:

Charlie02123
06-06-2008, 10:30 PM
WHY- What-EVAH are you trying to say?!?!? :angel:

OK, OK....I guess subtlety really ISN'T one of my virtues.....

Which means that we'll be going back and forth here until about 30 seconds before the race.

It's like Ebay!


OR, does nelslus at the last second put $17,001 on Casino Drive, and then divvy up the rest elsewhere.....who is it more important to beat.....Salmon.....Charlie.....Salmon.....Charlie .....AND, who blinks first.....:ponder:

Keep in mind that Salmon just won BOTH suicide pools. If he wins another competition he'll bruise back from patting it too hard.

dryrunguy
06-06-2008, 11:15 PM
EDITED: To take out Casino Drive and redistribute. Took out Da' Tara.

Big Brown, $25,000
Denis of Cork, $13,500
Ready's Echo, $15,000
Macho Again, $10,000
Icabad Crane, $16,000
Anak Nakal, $5,500
Tale of Ekati, $5,500
Guadalcanal, $500

Jay
06-06-2008, 11:16 PM
It's like Ebay!



Keep in mind that Salmon just won BOTH suicide pools. If he wins another competition he'll bruise back from patting it too hard.
LOL @ how that sounds at first glance.

oohsalmon
06-07-2008, 04:22 AM
Okay. I think I have this worked out for the moment... May tinker with it tomorrow.

Big Brown, $25,000
Casino Drive, $22,500
Denis of Cork, $12,000
Ready's Echo, $10,000
Macho Again, $10,000
Icabad Crane, $5,000
Anak Nakal, $2,500
Tale of Ekati, $2,500
Da' Tara, $1,000
Guadacanal, $500

Nine of em? Really? :p

ptmcmahon
06-07-2008, 06:37 AM
Based on their odds, he probably has enough money on each of them to guarantee some money.

He put more on every horse than I could on just one, so I'm officially toast :)

ptmcmahon
06-07-2008, 06:38 AM
Nine of em? Really? :p

No...dry picked all 10.

Jack
06-07-2008, 07:24 AM
OK, I don't think I can win this, so:

$7,000 - Macho Again
$5,000 - Denis of Cork
$1,000 - Big Brown (hopefully finish with some dollars!)

Tscott415
06-07-2008, 08:07 AM
Everything on Casino Drive

Make that everything on Macho Again

dryrunguy
06-07-2008, 08:21 AM
Breaking news... Casino Drive has been scratched. Bruised hoof. :(

ptmcmahon
06-07-2008, 08:24 AM
Wow...and it gets a little clearer for Big Brown!

oohsalmon
06-07-2008, 08:26 AM
Breaking news... Casino Drive has been scratched. Bruised hoof. :(

Oof.

I'm all in then for Ready's Echo.

Why not?

ptmcmahon
06-07-2008, 08:31 AM
Wonder what this does for the (real) odds (not ours of course.)

dryrunguy
06-07-2008, 11:15 AM
At some point, ESPN is going to do a piece on the duel between Affirmed and Alydar in 1978. I hope you all get to watch it. I can't remember a higher moment in racing history than when Affirmed barely held off Alydar in the Belmont--indicative of their other races as well. One of the best rivalries in the history of sports. Period.

If you get a chance, watch it.

If you can't, I believe all three of their Triple Crown races that year are on YouTube.

It's also a poignant reminder of just how weak horseracing is today... And casts a bit of a shadow over what Big Brown has accomplished given that he's had no real competition to date (which I think is less about Big Brown being a great horse and more about the fact that the fields across the board have been very, very weak).

TennisAnyone74
06-07-2008, 11:27 AM
Belmont Stakes:
$6,000 - Macho Again
$6,000 - Ready's Echo
$3,000 - Casino Drive
$2,250 - Big Brown

TA

Okay, given that Casino Drive scratched, put that $3,000 - Icabad Crane. All other bets stay the same. So now I have:

$6,000 - Macho Again
$6,000 - Ready's Echo
$3,000 - Icabad Crane
$2,250 - Big Brown

TA

dryrunguy
06-07-2008, 01:41 PM
For the life of me I don't understand why the current betting on Ready's Echo is 30-1... Totally mystifying. :confused:

dryrunguy
06-07-2008, 03:34 PM
WOW! I took my money away from Da' Tara! :(

How can a speed horse go wire to wire at 1.5 miles? MONSTROUS!

dryrunguy
06-07-2008, 03:41 PM
Just out of curiousity... How much money was bet on Big Brown? Makes you wonder.... :ponder:

Kirkus
06-07-2008, 03:44 PM
Wire to effing wire! Amazing.

I was surprise to see him take Da'Tara out front so soon. I guess I'll shut up now.

Mary and I were discussing what might have happened with Big Brown and she says the horse probably thought, "Screw this shit. It's hot, I'm not in the mood, get the eff off me and let's go find some grass." LOL.

dryrunguy
06-07-2008, 03:49 PM
Wire to effing wire! Amazing.

I was surprise to see him take Da'Tara out front so soon. I guess I'll shut up now.

Mary and I were discussing what might have happened with Big Brown and she says the horse probably thought, "Screw this shit. It's hot, I'm not in the mood, get the eff off me and let's go find some grass." LOL.

LOL!

Seriously... Wire to wire at the Belmont. Whodathunkit? Not possible. How odd.

They're making a big deal about him being steroid free today. Yeah, makes you wonder. But they were saying earlier that all horses will be steroid-free in 2009. We'll see.

Still a photo finish for third, BTW... Not decided yet.

The trainer says Big Brown is not hurt... That's good.

His stud fees just took a hit.

dryrunguy
06-07-2008, 03:52 PM
EDIT: A dead heat for Ready's Echo and Anak Nakal for third... Wow. Nick Zito horses finish 1st and 3rd...

Icabad Crane was next to last? :confused:

ptmcmahon
06-07-2008, 06:18 PM
Just out of curiousity... How much money was bet on Big Brown? Makes you wonder.... :ponder:

They said that at the track alone, there was over $5 million on Big Brown on just "to win" bets...not counting trifectas, exacts, etc...and how much was bet on internet/at other tracks.

ptmcmahon
06-07-2008, 06:21 PM
Sometimes I guess that "that name sounds like a good choice theory" isn't so bad. My wife's name is Tara, and she said she would've put all her money on "DA TARA" (plus the '.)

She woulda won a LOT. Should've just done that, I had nothing to lose. Looking at how people here bet, I might've come ... 2nd? 3rd maybe?

Ti-Amie
06-07-2008, 06:21 PM
Wire to effing wire! Amazing.

I was surprise to see him take Da'Tara out front so soon. I guess I'll shut up now.

Mary and I were discussing what might have happened with Big Brown and she says the horse probably thought, "Screw this shit. It's hot, I'm not in the mood, get the eff off me and let's go find some grass." LOL.

I thought the same thing Kirkus. He just didn't feel like it.

During the Post Parade I saw Da'Tara for the first time and said to my daughter "that's a good looking horse." Who knew?:o

dryrunguy
06-07-2008, 06:42 PM
I thought the same thing Kirkus. He just didn't feel like it.

During the Post Parade I saw Da'Tara for the first time and said to my daughter "that's a good looking horse." Who knew?:o

Well, seeing as the bastard had never won a graded stakes race before and was promised by Nick Zito to set the early pace--the death knell for a horse at 1.5 miles--he had no business winning. Great accomplishment, no doubt about it. But still, it flies in the face of all conventional wisdom for that distance. It just DOESN'T happen... There's a lesson in there somewhere. Who's got Chrissie on speed dial?

BTW, I'm fairly certain I'm screwed, no? A huge lead... Gone. I guess that makes me the Jana Novotna of horse racing betting... :(

ptmcmahon
06-07-2008, 10:15 PM
But you bet on the horses that finished 2nd and 3rd (and 3rd), and had so much more money than the rest of us tha you should be fine...I think...

nelslus
06-08-2008, 06:15 AM
But you bet on the horses that finished 2nd and 3rd (and 3rd), and had so much more money than the rest of us tha you should be fine...I think...

Now, I and all of us just adore our friend Dry.

Still, please note that Dry's contest beseeching and self-denigrating comments are a part of the deal with knowing Dry. "OH, I am doing so MISERABLY in this contest", "I am CERTAIN to blow my huge lead now against you big, strong, handsome lugs", "Why, oh WHY did I pick Nadal to win this French Open final, when it's such a JINX when I pick someone, now he will surely lose", "SURE, I have 275 medals, but they were all won pre-1917 when only Mary Pickford and I were TAT members", blah, blah, blah, blah. Then, he kicks our asses in with yet another contest. So, don't buy it. Unless Dry Justine Henins himself at some point, we are all contest doomed. :cheesy:

oohsalmon
06-08-2008, 07:06 AM
Final scores will be up on Monday sometime :).

nelslus
06-09-2008, 10:14 PM
Final scores will be up on Monday sometime :).

Lazy bum..... :cheesy:

ptmcmahon
06-10-2008, 10:41 AM
Ahhh...you meant NEXT monday!

nelslus
06-12-2008, 05:16 AM
:cheesy:

oohsalmon
06-12-2008, 05:51 AM
The Belmont Stakes Payouts
Win: Da' Tara 30-1
Place: Denis of Cork 6-1
Show: Anak Nakal 10-1
Show: Ready's Echo 10-1

The Final Leaderboard:

dryrunguy - $91,000 (+ $229,000) = $320,000
oohsalmon - $17,000 (+ $170,000) = $187,000
nelslus - $32,500 (+ $142,000) = $175,000
Charlie02123 - $25,000 (+ $150,000) = $175,000 (Tied for 3rd)
TennisAnyone74 - $17,250 (+ $48, 750) = $66,000
Jack - $13,000 (+ $22,000) = $35,000
Tscott415 - $16,750 (- $16,750) = $0
ptmcmahon - $150 (- $150) = $0
JTContinental - $0


EDITED: Took out Da' Tara.

What could have wound up being a fatal misstep wound up not hurting dry in the end, as he wins by several lengths at the end. Congratulations, Dry!

(If someone would be so kind as to double check my math... I feel as though I screwed up somewhere along the way.)

Jack
06-12-2008, 04:01 PM
Great!

Where do I collect my winnings?

dryrunguy
06-12-2008, 04:49 PM
Woo hoo! This was fun! Thanks for running it, Salmon! I hope we can get more people to participate next year. It's a neat concept!

ptmcmahon
06-12-2008, 06:09 PM
Well, at least I'm guaranteed not to do worse next time!

oohsalmon
06-12-2008, 06:23 PM
Woo hoo! This was fun! Thanks for running it, Salmon! I hope we can get more people to participate next year. It's a neat concept!

Thanks, Dry! Except for when the math sort of made my head hurt, it was a ton of fun, and I really enjoyed the format.

Maybe we could even transfer the odds/betting system into a tennis contest someday?

Tscott415
06-12-2008, 06:26 PM
Thanks, Dry! Except for when the math sort of made my head hurt, it was a ton of fun, and I really enjoyed the format.

Maybe we could even transfer the odds/betting system into a tennis contest someday?

Tried that at WTAw...and now its TF :shocked: